Why Nutrition and Sleep Could Be Game-Changers in Fighting Homelessness
What if dehydration or a vitamin deficiency is mistaken for psychosis? In this eye-opening episode, Leslie Bobb and David Jacob expose how poor nutrition and sleep deprivation trap people in homelessness. They argue that communities can break the cycle with simple, overlooked solutions—like real food, not leftovers. Meanwhile, society’s apathy keeps the crisis alive. Discover why small actions could spark big change.
Timestamps
- (00:00) Intro: The Hidden Health Crisis in Homelessness
- (00:24) Nutrition’s Role: More Than Just Calories
- (03:41) Sleep Deprivation: A Silent Killer on the Streets
- (06:38) The Ripple Effect: How Solving Homelessness Benefits Everyone
- (11:21) Shifting Perceptions: From Apathy to Action
- (18:03) Bureaucracy vs. Community: What’s Holding Us Back?
- (18:40) Libertarian Views: Government, Charity, and Choice
- (19:03) Piece-by-Piece Solutions: Relocation and Beyond
David Jacob
Leslie Bobb
📢 Solving America’s Problems Podcast – Real Solutions For Real Issues
Transcript
“Imagine your brain shutting down from dehydration or a vitamin
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:deficiency that looks like psychosis.
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:Our nutrition expert says homelessness
programs miss this basic stuff,
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:while sleep deprivation leaves people
functioning like they’re drunk.
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:Let’s explore what’s really going on.”
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:Jerremy Newsome: So Leslie, using
that word, you said the word solution,
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:what's a way, in your opinion, right?
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:Communities could use health
support better nutrition to help
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:people experiencing homelessness.
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:Leslie Bobb: I love that you asked
about communities, because I was
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:thinking a minute ago I really like
play, I go down some rabbit holes in
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:my head with devil's advocate stuff,
and I tend to be on the, i I fight all
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:the time about, well, we don't just.
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:Make people comfortable that are choosing,
you know, laziness or distraction or
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:whatever, that doesn't solve anything.
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:But also it's kind of proven people need
a house before they can fix anything else.
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:So I go in back and forth
and I was thinking, you know,
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:as far is housing a right?
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:A long time ago, throughout history,
we would've created our own shelter,
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:but we also would've been allowed to
do so, and we're not really allowed
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:to just go find a plot of land
and build a shelter on it anymore.
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:So we're preventing that natural
order that we used to have.
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:So when people talk about
personal responsibility.
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:We're not really allowed, in
some cases, to be responsible
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:in the same way we used to be.
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:But we would've had communities
that would've helped the widows or
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:the children, the orphans, whoever
couldn't, the disabled that couldn't
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:build their own shelter, their
community might have helped them.
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:Uh, and we don't have that anymore
either, especially in la New York,
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:these massive city, London, you
know, these are massive cities.
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:You can't, community doesn't
operate on such a large scale.
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:But to your question, as far as nutrition
support, there are definite, and I
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:like that David brought up Maslow's
hierarchy because, uh, when I was
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:talking to Dave, I also mentioned
that there, I mean, you legitimately
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:have to feel safe before you can do
anything else, like physically safe.
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:So I, I'm not saying if you eat right,
it's gonna fix all your problems,
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:but there are some nutritional
deficiencies that can cause.
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:Mental health problems that
can mimic substance abuse, that
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:can mimic psycho psychopathy.
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:Like if you have B12 deficiencies,
if you're severely dehydrated or have
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:protein deficiencies, your brain will
not function and you can expect someone
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:whose brain is not functioning to be able
to handle the same types of steps that
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:you or I might take if we were down on
our luck and needed to rebuild our lives.
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:So, yeah, it's a simple thing.
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:Go down to the Social Security
Office, apply for benefits you know,
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:go do this, go get a job, whatever.
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:But if, if your brain is not
functioning, if you are actually
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:intellectually disabled now, you're
not gonna be able to follow those
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:steps the way someone else might.
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:So I would say communities can help
fill those nutrition gaps, and not by
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:giving them, bless Panera's heart for
giving all of their old pastries to
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:the homeless, but not by giving them
sugar filled pastries, but by giving
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:them actual nutrition, not just.
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:Cast off leftover junk food.
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:Jerremy Newsome: Yeah.
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:Leslie Bobb: I don't think, I mean,
it's calories, it's keeping them
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:alive and it may be providing a
little bit of joy and a dismal life,
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:but it's not helping them heal or,
or, um, you know, return to society.
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:It's not helping them function.
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:So if we have an actual interest in
feeding the homeless, we need to be
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:feeding them nutrition and not just
like Disneyland, adding it like,
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:oh, we're the best group 'cause we
go on Sundays and give you donuts.
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:Like that's not helping anything.
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:@DavidJacob_1: But like bouncing
off that idea of like the health
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:implications of homelessness,
like the one that immediately pops
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:into my head is lack of sleep.
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:Leslie Bobb: Yeah,
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:@DavidJacob_1: on the
street, you are not sleeping
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:Leslie Bobb: absolutely.
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:@DavidJacob_1: Sleep rep.
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:Sleep deprivation is probably one of
the most dangerous like forces that
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:we have very little control over.
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:Right?
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:Like, I don't know the exact statistics,
so don't quote me on it, but I think
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:it's 24 hours without sleep is the
equivalent of being like actually
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:drunk, like over the legal limit.
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:Jerremy Newsome: like that.
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:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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:@DavidJacob_1: So you expect people
to rack up sleep debts of probably
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:24 plus hours in the course of
realistically what, like a week them to
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:be able to make reasonable decisions?
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:They're probably gonna
be emotionally volatile.
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:I'm annoyed when I have six hours of
sleep, let alone six hours of sleep
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:on one night, let alone three and a
half hours of sleep across months.
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:Jerremy Newsome: David.
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:That's weird.
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:@DavidJacob_1: Like you the impact
of sleep on something like this.
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:Jerremy Newsome: That's really
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:Leslie Bobb: You're absolutely right.
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:Yeah.
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:@DavidJacob_1: And, and
the other factor, right?
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:So let's say that, we take the shelter
stuff that we were talking about
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:before and you apply the same logic.
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:Running a shelter, it's probably not
gonna be conducive to great sleep.
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:You've got, however many people are
inside the shelter, it's probably gonna
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:be fairly well lit 'cause they wanna be
able to like, see what's going on there
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:and not gonna be, you know, pitch black,
which is the ideal conditions for sleep.
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:They're constantly terrified
that they're either gonna be,
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:assaulted or robbed or otherwise.
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:You've got people with, you know,
mental health problems who are probably
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:not exactly the soundest sleepers
on the planet, let's be honest.
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:All of that then, coupled with
historically poor sleep is probably gonna
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:lead to a massive decline in people's
mental health, and that's without even.
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:Truly addressing the, the, the
quote unquote real problems of
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:homelessness with it, which is
the tr the threat of violence.
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:And as Leslie was saying, poor nutrition
and everything else, we didn't need
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:sleep, we would've evolved out of it.
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:Over the thousands of years of
human evolution, we need it.
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:And this is probably arguably one
of the most impacted elements of it.
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:Leslie Bobb: And honestly, like you also
have people, especially the veterans
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:who are suffering from hyper alertness.
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:And I've never even been in
combat and I struggle with this.
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:So you can put me in a perfectly
comfortable, perfectly cool, dark,
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:safe room, and it's gonna take
me several nights to be able to
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:actually sleep through the night.
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:Like any sound I feel like in
my entire neighborhood wakes me
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:up with like my heart pounding.
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:So people who are actually in
danger, whereas I've never really
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:been in my life and I still have
a hard time, like it's gonna take
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:them a while to rewire, to safety.
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:So even if the shelter was nice, they
still might struggle getting that
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:adequate sleep because their nervous
systems are just so wired to keep,
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:you know, they're hypervigilant.
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:Jerremy Newsome: So here's a question that
popped in my mind as David and Leslie.
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:You were talking about
the sleep perspective.
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:What would be the benefits
if we did solve homelessness?
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:What, is there a benefit like
to the society, to communities?
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:Like what is it if Boom, hums
is no longer here tomorrow,
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:how does society get better?
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:Exactly.
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:Leslie Bobb: You wanna start David?
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:@DavidJacob_1: What are the benefits
of solving, solving homelessness?
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:I don't know.
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:Being able to say that we've,
we're not actively failing as
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:a society would be the big one.
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:I don't know.
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:That's, that's probably the biggest one.
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:I mean, based on Jerremy, the
numbers that you gave about, like
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:the cost of homelessness, every
year we'd say billions of dollars or
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:pounds every single year, just on.
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:There's a, probably less than
acceptable English way of phrasing
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:this that I will refrain from.
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:We like throwing money down the
toilet for want of a better phrase.
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:If we are just throwing $80 billion of
government spending at homelessness, and
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:it's, I assume getting worse year on year.
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:What could you do with $80 billion?
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:Right?
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:Jerremy, that's your, your
favorite question is what are you
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:gonna do with X amount of money?
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:I think you'd, you'd, you'd have
a pretty decent shot of doing a
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:lot of stuff with $80 billion.
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:I guess the other side of it is.
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:Homelessness, and I think this is where a
lot of people's gripes with homelessness
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:come from is it's not nice to look at
people in your local community or society
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:and see them struggling with mental
health and, houselessness and seeing
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:them deal with drug addictions and you
know, alcohol problems and all manner of
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:other things and all of the associated
problems like crime and whatever.
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:All of those things will slowly
start to decline across the board.
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:There's a, this is taking me back to now
my, like high school sociology classes.
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:There's a, there's an idea called the
broken windows Theory of Policing, where
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:if you fix all of the small problems, the
bigger problems don't tend to show up as
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:frequently because people don't want to
mess up the environment that they live in.
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:Well, if you're constantly seeing
homelessness around you, you're
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:probably gonna assume that that
area is also quite negative.
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:You flip that on its head when you fix
the biggest visible, I guess societal
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:dysfunction, which is homelessness.
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:It's the thing that we see every day.
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:Believe that, you know, the government
is enacting reasonable change.
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:The government probably can be trusted.
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:So focus, or at least faith in the people
that govern you, probably increases.
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:At the very least, people are more
inclined to invest in different
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:neighborhoods because they don't,
they aren't fearful of, a homeless
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:encampment popping up around the
corner randomly because insert A,
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:B, c, reason, whatever, Vagrant of
now taken a whatever plot of land.
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:Jerremy Newsome: Sure.
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:@DavidJacob_1: Probably gonna see
an increase in entrepreneurship
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:and businesses because they
don't worry about their shops
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:getting robbed or whatever it is.
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:Like there's mass societal benefits
that just come from fixing something
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:that is very visible in front
of mind to a lot of communities.
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:I'm sure if you ask people in LA
why would solving homelessness be a
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:problem they're gonna come up with so
I don't have to see it all the time.
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:Leslie Bobb: I would, uh,
I would agree with that.
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:And I, I was thinking additionally.
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:With a less pragmatic lens.
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:Earlier when you were talking about,
again, the, the biases people have that
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:keep them from looking at homelessness.
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:It occurred to me to me, my son went
through adolescence really struggling
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:because he's so intense and anytime
he would see a problem, it just felt
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:way too big to do anything about it.
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:So I think solving homelessness would
probably do good to restore our faith
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:in humanity a bit because we're not
glaring at this huge failing problem
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:that we can't do anything about or we
feel so powerless to do something about.
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:But also back to the money, I don't think,
the economic benefits in neighborhoods
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:I think is a very solid point, but also
Jerremy, I don't think that $80 billion
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:includes unpaid medical expenses, lost
wages, all of the talent that we're
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:losing out on from those almost a
million people that are not able to like.
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:Step in their purpose in this life because
of all the other things in the way.
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:I mean, those people might be visionaries,
they might be brilliant engineers.
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:They might have the cure for, whatever.
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:They might be able to colonize
Mars before Elon does.
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:Like, there might be some real gifts,
there are some real gifts out there
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:and people who are buried under life.
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:So I think just on a human scale with
my girl heart, I'm just gonna say
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:like the the cost is, or the benefit
is immeasurable in restoring that
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:many humans to their purpose in life.
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:Dave Conley: So both of you are
experts in helping people change,
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:from wherever they are, whether
it's their health and wellness, or
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:just the choices that they make.
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:How do we get people excited about this,
overcoming this acceptance in society?
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:What do you think, Dave?
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:What do you think Leslie?
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:Leslie Bobb: How do we get
housed people excited about
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:helping or how do we get okay.
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:Dave Conley: You know, like there's, it's,
I mean, it's a, it's a partnership, right?
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:Somebody's gotta want to change.
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:And based on the conversations
we've already had with people who've
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:been homeless, they do want that.
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:So how do we get society
excited about this?
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:How do we change society around this?
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:Leslie Bobb: I, I, I think the,
some of the first ingredients to to
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:getting someone to change is they
have to believe in a different future.
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:And I think that's a big one that
we would battle against nowadays
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:because people are so distracted and
they're so cynical that just getting
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:people to look and believe that it
could be different is gonna be hard.
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:They've been lied to and let down so
many times just in our short lives
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:that we have here, and there's so much
vying for their attention that that
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:would be the huge, the biggest hurdle.
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:So believing that there's a
different future, believing that.
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:You can have the different future.
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:So in our case, believing that you can
impact, you can pitch in on this problem,
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:that it does matter what you do would be
another hurdle once we can actually get
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:them to believe in a different future.
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:So I think those are like two
huge, huge like things to overcome,
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:@DavidJacob_1: Yeah.
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:I think building on that the fundamental
problem is at least from public
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:perception that I understand it to
be in, trying my best to continually
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:understand human behavior and psychology.
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:I think at its core society
views homelessness as like
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:an individual tragedy.
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:It's really sad that that person is
homeless, but I didn't cause it, and
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:I've got my own problems, but like,
it sucks to suck for them, it, we
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:need to shift to this idea that it's
like a collective failure stewardship.
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:Like, that's how I view it, that
as a society, we are failing.
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:We are failing at the basis
form of like societal function,
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:which is everyone has a home.
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:That is what a society is.
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:We grouped we, we collected in
groups so that we would be more
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:collectively safe than as a whole,
or sorry, than as individuals.
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:Right?
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:We would be more collectively safe
as a whole than as individuals.
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:But now it's kind of reversed, right?
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:And you, you now have the
tragedy of the commons where it's
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:always someone else's problem.
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:And so long as I'm getting mine,
that's all that I care about.
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:So if we work under the premise that
like our societies are shared resources,
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:well, we all have to feel collectively
responsible for those shared resources.
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:And if at the point in which we don't,
which I think is the point that we've
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:gotten to now, the individual palms
it off to their local government.
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:The local government palms it
off to the state government.
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:The state government palms it off
to the federal government, and now
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:everyone points at everyone else.
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:And it's like the Spider-Man
meme in real life, right?
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:Nobody wants to take ownership
of it because it's too big for
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:them to solve as an individual.
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:If it's too big for an individual,
then it's too big for a small group.
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:And if it's too big for the small
group, then it's bad for the bigger
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:group and the bigger group and the
bigger group and so on and so forth,
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:like the commons end up rotting because
the individuals don't care enough.
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:So like, how do you do it?
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:Like the, to combat like the almost
the shared paralysis of it all.
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:The, I write about this in my book, right?
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:The, a lot of people take on what I call
problem conflation, they group lots of
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:problems into one big problem and then
go, oh, well it's too difficult, so
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:I'm not gonna even bother doing that.
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:And it's, it's the whole
idea of the guardian knot.
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:Alexander the Great found the
Gordian Knot, which was, you know,
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:unsolvable for however many centuries.
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:And the law was that whoever
solved the Gordian knot would
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:become the ruler of Asia.
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:So he pulled out his
sword and cut it in half.
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:And we have to take
the same approach here.
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:Whatever we're doing now
is categorically failing.
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:The approaches that we're
currently taking are broken.
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:They do not work, and it has
been proven year on year.
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:So instead of trying to sit and untangle
one corner of the knot and hope that
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:that has a collective benefit, we have
to look at this much more holistically
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:and say, okay, well take the entire
framework that we view this in, or
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:view this through and put it in a bin.
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:Instead of trying to enact massive
societal change from the top down
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:at a highly bureaucratic level where
everything takes 87 meetings and
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:a hundred different note takers to
figure out how to do something best.
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:How can one individual
help one individual?
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:How can one person help?
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:One person?
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:Because if one person helps one person
times hundred thousand people, you
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:eradicate, what did you say Jerremy?
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:It was seven 50,000 people.
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:Okay, cool.
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:We've solved 15% of the problem
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:Jerremy Newsome: Yep.
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:@DavidJacob_1: it took
you helping one person.
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:Okay, cool.
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:How do you expand that out?
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:Jerremy Newsome: So go down that train
of thought a little bit more, David,
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:because you're, you're touching on
this and what I'm hearing you say,
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:and kinda what it's making me ask
is what's a business like approach?
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:Say rethinking how we fund solutions.
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:would that make that dent?
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:I mean, you're very close to it,
but what would be that one extra
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:loop or connection that tie in?
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:@DavidJacob_1: Yeah, so I think
the there's a, the life of me, I
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:can't remember what it's called, but
collec small collective funds, right?
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:Where let's say you and everyone
on your street puts in 50 bucks.
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:That 50 bucks buy however many houses
are on a street, let's call it 20 for
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:argument's sake, is a thousand dollars.
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:That a thousand dollars doesn't go very
far when you try and tackle homelessness.
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:if you know that there's one person
who's constantly homeless on your street,
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:picking up trash or whatever else.
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:You gave that thousand dollars that person
a month, it costs you 50 bucks a month.
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:That thousand dollars changes that
one person's life very easily.
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:If every street in the US did
that, I'm assuming there's more
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:than 750,000 streets in the us.
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:Congratulations.
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:It costs $50 a month.
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:Can everyone contribute that?
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:Probably not.
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:Probably not.
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:there people are.
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:there people who can contribute a hell
of a lot more than 50 bucks a month?
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:Yeah, but it's small collective
groups solving small, collective
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:group problems, right?
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:It's a whole basis of community.
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:But the moment that you turn it into
a massive bureaucracy and it turns
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:into a business, well now the business
needs to survive and the business
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:needs to exist for however many years
to earn back any investment that went
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:into it, and the whole cycle repeats.
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:It has to be on a small scale.
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:Jerremy Newsome: Leslie, what
part of that caused the physical
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:smile that's on your face?
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:Leslie Bobb: Well, I would say
the, uh, the American answer would
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:be, well, I am, it's called taxes.
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:I already am giving that money,
and the government is supposed
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:to be giving it to that person,
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:@DavidJacob_1: It isn't the
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:Leslie Bobb: so I.
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:@DavidJacob_1: feel that you
don't trust the government
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:as far as you can throw them,
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:Leslie Bobb: Well, I, yes,
I'm a libertarian, so yes.
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:And I would rather give that $50
to my neighbor than the government.
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:But the fact is the government takes
it from me for this problem, and I
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:don't have a, a voice in the solution.
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:So I would say that that would be
an insta argument to your ideal.
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:@DavidJacob_1: But
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:Leslie Bobb: very logical.
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:@DavidJacob_1: But what if
you did have a voice in it?
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:What if it was exactly that?
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:It was a voluntary, on your
street, in your street alone.
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:There was one homeless guy that lived
nearby your street, and you and the
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:collective citizens of your street, in
your street alone decided out of the
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:goodness of your heart and nothing else.
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:There was no mandate you were gonna
give 50 bucks a month to, Brian,
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:who lives at the end of the road.
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:Leslie Bobb: I mean, I think that
would, would be beautiful like most.
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:Beautiful solutions.
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:The way it plays out in
real life might not work.
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:There's been, most of my life, I wouldn't
have been able to afford 50 bucks.
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:So I might have gone and like
cleaned Brian's house for him
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:instead or whatever, because I
didn't have the 50 bucks to pitch in.
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:But I think it's a beautiful idea.
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:But then say we give Brian a thousand
bucks every month and he drinks it
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:away instead of paying his rent.
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:Which is where you get into the
paternalistic governmental, like,
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:I'm gonna solve this problem
for you because you're not smart
375
:enough to do it by yourself.
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:So I think there's a lot of potential
holes to be poked, but then we
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:get back into the, it's too solve,
it's too big to solve problem.
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:And I do agree with your, you know,
let's just take a sword and slice what
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:we're doing right down the middle.
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:Start over.
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:Uh, maybe with an outcome centered
approach instead of a a, just, or.
382
:Accountability philosophy or whatever,
if we just focus on the outcomes that
383
:we're looking for, we can just maybe
set aside for just a moment whether
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:it's fair to give Brian a thousand
dollars even though I have to work
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:for my rent or any of that situation.
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:But the reality is it's, it's people don't
always do what they're supposed to do.
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:Jerremy Newsome: So the system is broken.
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:Do we have to break the whole thing?
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:Sounds like a yes.
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:One of the situations or determinations
that we were kind of discussing in
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:the last episode was taking some of
the individuals who didn't wanna be
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:homeless, a consensus, and then placing
them in other parts of the US that need
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:that need population, that need people
to come in with fresh perspectives.
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:Fresh thoughts, fresh ideas.
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:you think that has any relevancy?
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:Is that even remotely possible?
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:Leslie,
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:Leslie Bobb: I think that would
answer a small portion of the
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:homeless population's problems.
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:I think if you, uh, just
offered to relocate certain
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:people to where there was work.
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:Some of them would take
it, take you up on it.
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:Many of them would not.
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:They wouldn't wanna relocate,
they wouldn't wanna work, they
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:wouldn't be capable of it.
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:As we discussed before, with the mental
illness and substance abuse problems.
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:I, I think it, Dave mentioned earlier, one
size fits all approach not working here.
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:And I think that's, I think that's
really what we have to keep in mind is
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:people are homeless for unique reasons
and we're not gonna be able to just
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:make one path to get them out of it.
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:I don't think so.
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:I think that would work for some of them,
but not probably the majority of them.
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:@DavidJacob_1: But, so this is where
I struggle with this idea, right?
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:So I agree with you, Leslie, that it's,
it's not, you know, a one size fits all
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:isn't gonna work at solving the whole
thing, will it solve a portion of it?
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:If the goal is to keep chipping
away, then let's keep chipping away.
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:Let's not cast out solutions because
they don't solve it in its entirety.
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:That's the entire problem
of the Gordian Knot.
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:Is that you have to solve it piece
by piece or do what Alexander
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:did and cut it down the middle.
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:Well, if cutting it down the middle
is not applicable, then we have to
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:solve it piece by piece by piece.
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:And if it is, you know, yeah.
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:Some people are more than happy to
relocate and go to an area with jobs
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:and they're happy to be, essentially
government mandated shelters until they've
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:worked for a period of time and then
they have enough money to get themselves
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:into housing and their lives restart.
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:Fantastic.
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:If we can knock off a hundred
thousand people because of that
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:initiative alone, we've solved
it by plus minus 15% overnight.
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:obviously it's not overnight,
but the point still remains.
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:Leslie Bobb: Sure.
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:@DavidJacob_1: But like, just because it
doesn't solve the whole thing doesn't mean
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:that it's not a solution in approaching.
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:And I think that's where like the whole
Gordian knot analogy really comes into
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:play because if we try and solve all
of it, we'll try and solve nothing.
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:How do you eat an elephant?
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:One bite at a time.
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:Leslie Bobb: Yeah, for sure.
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:I, I hope I didn't sound like I was saying
it wasn't a worthwhile approach, but I
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:do think 5%, 15%, it's worth solving,
especially if they're people that just
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:need an opportunity and they're gonna
be back on their feet, then heck yeah,
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:let's help 'em find an opportunity.
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:That's just stupid not
to do that, honestly.
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:Uh, then there's people that have mental
illness that can be treated, and then
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:there's people that have substance
abuse that may not be ready to be
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:treated, but we keep working on that.
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:So yeah, definitely.
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:Just because there's no one size
fits all doesn't mean none of
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:the sizes fit anybody for sure.
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:Alex: “We’ve seen how poor
nutrition and no sleep hold people
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:back in ways programs ignore.
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:So, how do we get
society to actually care?
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:Next, our guests share ideas to
flip the script—and why your actions
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:might outshine any government fix.”
