From Litter to Leadership: Lessons in Systemic Change for Homelessness

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“Ever wonder how America shamed people into ditching litter?

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It worked.

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Now picture that energy tackling

homelessness, paired with

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Singapore’s wild transformation from

swamp to powerhouse in 60 years.

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Let’s talk systemic change.”

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Jerremy Newsome: I can see that

you're ready to jump in on this.

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Dave Conley: No, our

guests are making me think.

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Right, and I'm just thinking

it through because, you know,

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that one size doesn't fit all.

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Just a quick back of the napkin math,

we're being taxed, $57 per person in

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the United States for these, three

quarters of a million homeless people.

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And to me that's nothing right?

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Over the course of a year, you know,

like the price of a meal, you know,

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like a dinner here, half a dinner here

in Miami, you know, that's not enough.

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Uh, I, I feel like, you know, like we

need to be spending a lot more and just

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saying, look, this is unacceptable.

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It is cruel to have

people treated like this.

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Why would, as a society we be doing this?

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And it is different from

every person, right?

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For somebody who has, you

know, severe mental illness.

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Yeah.

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They're gonna be like in one camp for

somebody who is a victim of domestic

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violence, which most women are

homeless because of domestic violence.

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That's a whole different ball of wax.

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You know, getting them safe and in a

position where that they can have a

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job and take care of their kids like,

uh, like our guests, uh, last week.

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I, I don't know.

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I, I feel like it's one thing to talk

about, like solutions, what isn't

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working, what is working, but I just

know we're not doing enough and that

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it, I don't know, it pisses me off.

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Leslie Bobb: So Dave or Dave and Jerremy,

the guests that you've spoken to before?

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I wonder like in certain situations,

I know here I can't speak to the whole

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country, but I know that there are a

lot of resources for women escaping

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domestic violence and obviously

they're not matching, they're not

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finding the women that need them.

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In a lot of cases, if, if that's

true that most of the women that

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are homeless are homeless because

of fleeing domestic violence.

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So.

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With the $80 billion we are spending,

and that probably doesn't count.

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That probably doesn't include,

maybe it does include charitable

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NGOs and things like that, that

aren't getting federal funding.

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I'm not sure.

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But with the 80 billion plus that is

going into these types of resources,

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I really feel like a question to be

asked in the solution would be, how are

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we better combining these resources,

aligning them so they're not all

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doing the same thing and not reaching

anybody and nobody's doing this thing.

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Like, I feel like there's a better way to,

to coordinate resources and disseminate

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them to the people that need them.

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If, if all of these numbers are true.

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Dave Conley: Again, I love that.

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And I keep on coming back to a

question I asked earlier was, how do

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we get society excited about this?

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Like what's the how?

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Because I, I lived in San Francisco

and I, I think homelessness, you know,

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the programs was I think the second

largest, budget item in San Francisco.

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There were so many services, so many

organizations, and I, you know, and

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everybody was like, wring their hands

of like, oh, we spend all this money and

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yet we keep on getting more homelessness.

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Well, it's clearly not working.

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But everybody sort of felt better about it

because they were paying a ton of taxes.

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So that disconnect, I want to

know what you really think about

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people getting excited about this

and maybe getting pissed off like

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me, like, this is unacceptable.

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Like we, we've gotta, we've gotta

stop, stop doing stupid stuff,

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Jerremy Newsome: do.

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Like how angry you're about this and we've

had so many topics already in the past.

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You're f fever energy towards

this is similar towards

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mine with school shootings.

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But I think the answer, Dave.

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Ready, Leslie Ray.

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David, a really good president.

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I think that's the

solution to this, right?

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Where you have someone who's actually

championing this and yelling at it

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from the rooftops, where it's like,

listen, and again, this is my policy.

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My policy is all internal.

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I love Gaza, love Israel,

love Iran High five.

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You guys gotta figure

that stuff out yourself.

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Here's what we're gonna do, right?

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America's almost, we're gonna stop

policing the world and we're gonna,

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we're gonna come internal for a

while and fix all of the stuff that's

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happening here because we as a nation

are the watchdog for the entire globe.

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Just 'cause we wanna be, and to be

really, really fantastic for someone in

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a position of extreme authority on every

debate stage, on every, address to fix

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education, is where homelessness starts.

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And to fix homelessness and what's

currently existing and to just let

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society know that this is a standard

that's just simply not acceptable.

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Leslie Bobb: So

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Jerremy Newsome: very easy,

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Leslie Bobb: there's an identity

shift then that we need to,

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to encourage instead of.

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Jerremy Newsome: and

identity system shifts.

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Dave Conley: When I was growing up,

right, like there were all of these.

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ads on about litter.

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I mean, like, so like, if, if

you're, if you're under, you know,

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if you're under 40, you'll, you'll

never even know that this existed.

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But there were crying, you

know, crying Native Americans.

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There were bears.

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Like it was constant.

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There were signs everywhere that, you

know, on litter bugs, like we shamed like

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the entire country into stop littering.

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Now it, I would say, you know, like,

this isn't like the number one thing

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anymore, but not like all of our

communities are like really clean,

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but they're way cleaner than what they

were in the seventies and eighties.

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Like, it was filthy.

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People would just throw

stuff out of their car.

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That all stopped, you

know, like, I, I want that.

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I want this to be like

a public shaming, like

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Leslie Bobb: It, it worked.

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Dave, because I am so angry, like

littering makes me blow my top.

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Rednecks still litter.

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So they need a little bit longer of the

social conditioning and the brainwashing

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than the normal urban populations do.

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Because I live out here in Virginia and

they will throw stuff in the back of

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their pickup because when they drive, it

blows out and then they didn't mean to.

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But I feel like there is something

to be gained from public shaming

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campaigns to change identity shifting.

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So,

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Dave Conley: now I come from

300 years of redneck, so like, I

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don't know I'm not much of a re

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Leslie Bobb: but you moved to

San Francisco, so I feel like.

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Dave Conley: education back to

what Jerremy was talking about.

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Jerremy Newsome: That's good.

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Yeah.

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Well, Dave, I mean that's really what

it would take, man, and that, I think

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that's what it takes with any change

have to have some type of authoritative

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focus and really direct messaging around

a particular topic, whatever it is.

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And then you gotta get

the media behind it.

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And everyone just focuses on it.

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Like right now in the US

the big one is immigration.

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I mean, that's high on the list.

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So people are like.

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Get 'em out of the country versus

let's make sure everyone who's in

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the country has a place to live.

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It's like if, do you belong here?

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No.

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Get out.

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Like no one cares about

who's here presently.

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So I think immigration right

now is a higher priority.

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US based value, system based,

identity based versus homelessness.

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And again, that's just my opinion, but I

think probably most listeners would agree.

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But the shift there would be

if you have a president or an

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administration who goes, you know what?

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Okay, yes, immigration, it's a problem.

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However, you know, it also is a problem.

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Everyone who goes to fight immigration

or to change immigration, or who is

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a veteran, a large percentage of our

veteran population becomes homeless.

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Let's fix that instead.

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you're probably gonna get is more people

who want to actually serve the military

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because they know, oh, wait a minute,

when I go through the military and

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potentially get PTSD and potentially have

an addiction problem, and most likely

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maybe form some type of mental health

fear, challenge, stress, frustration.

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I'm not just gonna get

kicked outta the street.

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I'm actually gonna have a place

that's gonna take care of me.

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Oh, that place is safe and it's

not overcrowded, and they're

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gonna serve me good food.

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So you know what my

worst case scenario is?

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I'm actually gonna be taken care

of by the country that I'm serving.

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I

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Dave Conley: I.

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Jerremy Newsome: that whole system

with a small little, just a little

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flake of rebranding and ReLove

could make some massive changes.

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Dave Conley: And also policies that

don't leave people in that donut

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hole that our last guest ran into.

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Like, she could either live in absolute

poverty on her veterans benefits fits,

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or she would have to give up her veterans

benefits in order to get, you know,

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slightly better homeless benefits.

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But she was like stuck in, stuck

in this middle hell of, you know,

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bureaucratic policy nightmare.

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Hey David just sitting here

thinking, you know, what do you

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think is different or the same?

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I don't know what's

different about the uk.

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Like you, you do have healthcare,

you know, universal healthcare,

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we don't education system.

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Like what, what do you see as far

as parallels or, you know, things

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that are different where you live?

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@DavidJacob_1: It goes back to the

same question that you asked at

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the start, which was about apathy.

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And it speaks to a collective

consciousness that is focused on the

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idea that if people are homeless, it's

'cause they did something to deserve it.

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themselves into this situation,

they're probably not a great person.

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Yeah.

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Sometimes.

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And now in the UK the one thing

that we don't have as a cause

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is massive medical bill issues.

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Like people aren't necessarily in

homelessness because they have massive

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amounts of debt and their house has

been repoed and they don't have a

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community around them that will allow

them to, get back on their feet.

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That's not really a thing here.

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It most likely is mental health

drugs or, you know, yeah.

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Tough times for whatever

reason, disability, et cetera.

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But the problem still exists and

the solutions that we are trying

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so far, as I'm aware, very similar

to yours, shelters, remedies across

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the board, across, you know, mental

health and and whatever else.

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Jerremy Newsome: Leslie, and

then David, is there anything in

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this current environment, current

situation, even gives you a glimmer

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of hope, comma, or even a semicolon?

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Is there something that you see

is working or could work that if

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implemented soon, would really

actually make a shift for a dent?

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Leslie Bobb: Great question.

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Uh, I, I always have a

glimmer of hope, so yes.

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I, we see, we do see some things

work and we do see some things

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that are promising, but maybe not

applied in just the right way.

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Um, I have seen a lot of these

little tiny home villages.

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I, not a lot, I've seen them

pop up these little tiny home

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villages that pop up in the news.

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Our city has been trying to have one,

but they just aren't zoned for it.

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And so they've been meeting a lot of

barriers that people that are trying

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to start these kinds of things.

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But in other areas, I've seen

apartment buildings or tiny

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homes be used for this housing.

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As it sounds like we all kind of agree.

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I mean, that was kind of Finland's

main thing was like, let's put a roof

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over everybody's head first and then

we can kind of get to the problem.

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So I always have a glimmer of hope.

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I think that our society, particularly in

America, but I would guess as humans we

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tend to swing really far on the pendulum.

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America may be more than most.

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Um, so we swing really far one

way, but then we self-correct and

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swing really far the other way.

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And I think we're close to an

upswing on the pendulum and we're

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gonna be self-correcting soon.

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And I think part of that

is the population size.

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So as David was pointing out on a

smaller community level, we can,

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we can kick this in the arts, we

can like get it out of the way.

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So I think if we can start shifting

solution I identity I guess to

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community based again, rather than this.

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Larger society responsibility

issue, I think that we could

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really start solving some problems.

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So I am, I'm hopeful there that

we can look, we can look next door

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instead of looking to Washington, um,

more immediately and start solving

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the problems on smaller scales.

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And that'll spread.

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So that, that gives me hope.

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Getting someone in the administration

that likes to look towards solution, uh,

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based ideas is, is also always hopeful.

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We get a new president every four

to eight years, so there's always

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something different to look forward to.

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So I definitely think that is a

down the line hope, but I'm really

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excited about, about community focus.

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@DavidJacob_1: I guess to, to

focus on the, the inverse, right?

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So kind of going against everything that

I've said today and, and targeting the big

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macro versus the micro, I don't think that

necessarily we need to look forward to

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find something that resembles a solution.

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I think we probably actually

need to look backwards.

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So my dad was born in Singapore in the

sixties, and one of the big success

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stories of complete and societal

reprogramming is Singapore, right?

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Like in 1960 odd, I don't

know the actual date.

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Qua Yu, who was the, the.

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President Prime Minister of of

Singapore completely revitalized

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this country from essentially a giant

swamp in between, Eastern powers

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that weren't exactly happy post World

War II and turned it into a massive

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geopolitical center in the far East.

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Right.

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And the way that that happened was

because there was this collective

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ideological shift of, yeah, we're a

tiny country and we are very divided

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racially and we're very divided,

politically and socioeconomically, but

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we are going to become exceptional.

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And that was the collective goal.

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As a result, he engineered the

entire country around that ideal.

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And everything changed as

the basis of that, right?

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It required a collective

ideological shift.

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And then the government actually

followed through, right?

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The British had governed Singapore

for God knows how many years.

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There was ethnic tension,

there was poverty.

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There were like no resources

actually in the country.

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But you now have the ability for a single

leader to come in and say, no, we're

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fixing this and we're gonna rip it down

right to the roots and start again.

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And society became something that

became a system that was built with the

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intention of, in the following decades.

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And in the next, now 60 years later,

there's something to show for it.

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You look at what happened in

Singapore and the goal was that

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they were playing the long game.

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Yeah, this isn't gonna be

solved in the next five years.

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It's probably not even gonna be solved

in the next 10 years, but give it 10,

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20 years and this is going to go away

and we're gonna solve those problems.

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So housing became something

that became governmental, right?

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So the whole idea behind

the, oh, what was it?

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Hd something, HDB maybe housing system

was, we're going to give ownership

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of land back to the population.

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And if you compare that to, you know, the

western world, we basically live in cdo.

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We are not like actually owning anything.

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We're renters, right?

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We've, we've commoditized

housing to the nth degree.

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the government develops and subsidizes

high quality housing and then actually

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maintains it, which is the problem,

the government actually has to follow

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through on keeping it up to scratch.

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At that point, if you've individuals who

own, quote unquote, that land and it's

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highly subsidized by the government,

you now have an ability for social

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cohesion because these people know that

they're not necessarily going anywhere.

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They have a stable base to go back to.

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You know Leslie's point from earlier.

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if those.

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Government subsidized houses that are

built solely for this purpose that

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actually have affordability baked in.

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Now you have the ability to

co-create culture with your citizens.

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And I think from a macro

perspective, that's where the

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community style of like small town

Americana comes back into the fray.

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Because if you can build that

in, well now you're looking at a

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fundamentally different idea because

now all of those people are looking

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at the government that basically

pulled them out of abject poverty and

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saying, these people actually care.

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I exist.

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And if you look at Singapore now,

I would hazard a guess, again,

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don't quote me, plus minus 90% of

people actually own their own homes.

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Their social cohesion.

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The company's eco or the country's

economy has boomed to the nth degree.

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And I would have a guess that

homelessness basically doesn't

308

: 00:16:36

exist, but you gotta rip, rip it

out from the root and start again.

309

: 00:16:40

And that has to be a countrywide

attempt at social change.

310

: 00:16:44

Alex: “We’ve uncovered how societies

can shift when they want to.

311

: 00:16:48

But what about the business side?

312

: 00:16:50

Next, see how real estate folks

could step up—and hear a simple

313

: 00:16:53

action you can take right now.”