Charlie Kirk's Death: The Vile Celebration Exposing America's Online Toxicity
In this episode of Solving America's Problems, hosts Jerremy Alexander Newsome and Dave Conley unpack the rebranded show's mission to confront timely crises and deep societal fractures. They dissect the raw emotional and moral fallout from Charlie Kirk's controversial death, highlighting the perils of online culture, the backlash of celebrating death, and the grip of toxic masculinity. Broader tensions like unchecked radicalization fuel the chaos, leading to a call for compassionate leadership to mend divisions in these turbulent times.
Timestamps:
- (00:00) Introduction to America's Got Problems
- (00:55) Current Events and Social Media Impact
- (03:19) The Ethics of Celebrating Death
- (07:26) Moral Dilemmas and Leadership
- (21:46) Zeihan Before / After
Peter Zeihan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuzTJRReDMI&t=1s
📢 Solving America’s Problems Podcast – Real Solutions For Real Issues
Transcript
Okay.
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:Welcome to another episode
of America's Got Problems.
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:Jerremy: That's right.
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:That's we rebranded.
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:Dave: So every now and then
we pop in and talk about
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:Jerremy: about.
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:Dave: what's going on in the world.
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:But not hot takes where we're sort
of seeing it, where it's going.
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:And this is one of those sessions, like
normally what our listeners, what you
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:guys are gonna hear this week, you're
gonna hear, you know, our regular show.
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:But at the end of this week, uh,
we're going to tack these on.
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:So I believe our, our shows run
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday this week.
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:And so this will go up
on Thursday, Friday.
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:So if you're listening to this,
you're gonna be a couple of days
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:out, but at least our goal here,
starting out, it's going to be.
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:Not so much evergreen, but it's gonna
be like a slice of life right now.
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:And a little, bit more topical, but
also a little bit more of deeper issues.
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:So my friend, my buddy, my brother.
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:Jerremy: Yes
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:Dave: welcome.
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:Jerremy: Thank you
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:Dave: So not much going on, right?
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:Jerremy: very little.
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:We had to really dig deep to find
discussions for today's topics.
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:I'm glad we're doing this.
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:I'm glad we're doing a up to
date like what's going on.
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:'cause there is, there's so much going on.
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:There's so much wildness out there.
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:So much division and hate and
animosity, and a lot of people
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:are, a lot of people are feeling
lost and sad and confused and yeah.
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:I think this is a great time for
us to just connect with the folks.
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:Dave: Yeah, it's curious.
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:I'd been taking a break from social
media, which I think everybody needs
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:to be doing because being terminally
online, I think that's actually one of
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:the causes of the crazy not a reflection.
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:It's a little bit of both.
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:It's showing us who we are and it's
also, it's not, nothing's helping there.
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:Jerremy: Right.
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:Dave: And so I didn't even know
anything was going on until you texted
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:me and said, Hey, this isn't good.
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:So, yeah, Charlie Kirk, at least today and
yesterday and I saw some over the weekend.
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:Wow.
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:There's so much energy, particularly
on, just everywhere, so much energy.
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:Jerremy: Yeah.
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:Dave: We could go a million
different ways, but some of the
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:things that occurred to me was I.
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:Certainly healthy people don't do this.
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:Jerremy: Yes.
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:Dave: And in our upcoming episode with
Tyler and also we've talked about it
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:in previous episodes a lot is, having
purpose taking care of yourself.
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:Certainly online culture and
what, you know, what that can do.
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:I think a lot of people are like
looking for reasons for this in a
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:completely unreasonable situation.
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:And it's very reactive and it's like,
okay let's ban all of this online.
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:I'm like, didn't we just talk about
this like a couple of years ago where
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:like we were banning stuff online?
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:It's like, we don't wanna do that.
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:Or like, let's land the government
on everybody on the left.
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:And I'm like, oh, that's not good.
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:That's just gonna be turned
around right back on you.
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:There's a, a lot of emotion.
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:Where are you on this?
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:Like what were your sort of
initial thoughts on this and
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:like what's the bigger picture?
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:Jerremy: All right, so my job presently
right now is to really do my best to
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:listen to both sides on any topic and
just try to distill, try to figure out
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:what the information is, what people
are saying, what people are really
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:feeling while they're feeling that way.
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:Really having my finger on the pulse
so that I can learn, so that I can
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:study, so I can understand more.
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:First and foremost, no one wants
anyone to die unnecessarily.
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:I think that's probably the case and I
think saying that, making that statement
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:would seem accurate, but there were
a lot of people that were extremely.
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:I guess happy is the right word or
a celebratory around this particular
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:young man's death, which I just think is
vile by any stretch of the imagination.
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:Dave: Sure.
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:Jerremy: think anyone celebrating
anyone's death or assassination or
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:murder is someone that's also mentally
ill and the thing, but like you need
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:to really look into your, and check
your humanity for a quick second.
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:Doesn't matter who it is, Bernie, anyone.
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:Dave: Okay.
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:Jerremy: that gets assassinated
over a political view
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: that person should not
celebrated on the negative side.
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:Someone really being
excited that happened.
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:Dave: I hear you and one
of my jobs here, right?
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:Jerremy: Yep.
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:Dave: It's like, okay, let's think
about this a little bit, because people
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:are messy, people are complicated.
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:I don't think it's controversial to say
that Charlie Kirk brought up and he had
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:some controversy, but he was also, from
everything that I've ever heard, that
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:he said, everything that anybody's ever
said about him is he's actually quite
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:kind and he was willing to engage with
people just using his words, right.
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:He was never hyperbolic.
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:He was never crazy.
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:He was never angry.
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:He was never whipping people up.
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:He just wanted to talk to people and he
had his opinions, like he comes from a
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:Christian background and things that I
definitely don't agree with, but I was
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:also able to hear past those messages and
be like, okay, I get where he is coming
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:from, and I can't hold that against him.
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:So saying all that.
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:Yeah, there was a lot of
celebration I saw and things online.
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:I'm like, Ooh.
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:That just gives you the chills that
anybody would be like, happy about
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:this and think about this too.
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:Osama Bin Laden, uh, what, 2010?
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:Uh, we went in there, we got 'em, and
there were parties in the streets.
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:Celebrating the death of this man.
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:And I'm not gonna say that I'm,
I, you know, I didn't, I think a
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:lot of people had like, oh my God.
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:Yeah, we got him.
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:And I felt good about that,
but I was also quite solemn.
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:It happened late in the day as I recall,
or late, you know, like early evening.
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:And I lived in Washington, DC
and so I went down to the, uh,
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:nine 11 memorial at the Pentagon.
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:Because I lived there during
nine 11, it was very powerful,
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:particularly living in a spot where
all of this crazy was going on.
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:Being at a OL and, and being a part
of, I mean, it was just bonkers in
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:particular like you would find in
New York, and I was quite solemn.
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:Like we'd gone in there
and we'd killed somebody.
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:We killed family members.
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:Like part of me just, that
just doesn't sit well.
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:Yet I don't think a lot of
people would've, would've, uh,
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:like that one's acceptable.
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:And I, and I'm like, and this one isn't.
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:I get it.
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:Do you see the tension there, right?
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:Like when it's somebody that,
when we as, as, evil or bad,
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:it's like, oh yeah, that's cool.
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:But when we see somebody who's
like this paragon of virtue,
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:we're like, oh, that's gross.
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:If somebody's celebrating that.
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:But I can also see where like
people were pretty grumpy.
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:Jerremy: Yeah, I was more on the
grumpy side, just like the solemn
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:Dave: yeah.
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:Jerremy: I never met Charlie, didn't know
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:I was
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: slotted to meet him in the
next couple of weeks, ironically.
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:And to your point.
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:I don't agree with most people.
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:Especially a hundred percent of the time.
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:I almost, that's almost no one
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:Dave: I don't agree with
myself half the time,
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:Jerremy: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
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:Me and my wife I'm over here.
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:I don't know about this babe.
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:think Olive Garden is not superior, so
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:Dave: red Lobster, we gotta
talk about those cheesy breads.
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:Jerremy: fascinating man,
what's fascinating is.
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:For you to create such a human
tension is accurate, right?
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:Like the humanity of whatever an
individual is doing or feels around
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:another individual's assassination is
a very challenging, really metaphysical
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:concept to wrap our heads around because
ultimately it's gonna be a propaganda
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:of who's right and who's wrong, right?
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:What side are you on?
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:What do you believe in that person?
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:There are plenty of outlets that I
track and that I watch that are going
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:to, and that did paint Charlie Kirk as
a bigot, as a misogynist, as a racist,
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:Dave: Oof.
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:Jerremy: And they were very forthright
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: those terms.
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:And I don't remember personally
or specifically at least a
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:bunch of American outlets.
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:And again, at the time, I wasn't
extremely involved in politics, but
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:like 2010 being like, oh, Osama bad.
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:Laden's a great individual, but again,
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: But we don't live over there.
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:Where a lot of people probably
did celebrate that fact.
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:Celebrate him as a human being
and a virtuous individual, right?
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:There's, I'm sure.
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:A modicum of people that felt that way
and they probably were quite perturbed
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:and disturbed in his assassination.
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:I will go on record and say, I don't
personally think that it's something
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:that's worthy of celebrating, in
general, but you are always in
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:life gonna have to pick a side.
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:It doesn't matter what side it is.
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:It could be a religious side, it could
be a political side, it could be a war.
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:Side, because if you live in a particular
country and you're patriotic and your
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:country gets attacked, or you get
called to go to war by the president,
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:which is really essentially his job
as chief and commanding officer,
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:gonna have to go and you're gonna
have to be the more virtuous person.
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:And that's a challenge, man.
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:It's a humanistic, very deep in
my opinion, just metaphysical
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:obstacle for all of us at some
stage, overcoming our life.
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:Dave: So for our listeners, this isn't
gonna come as a surprise, the work
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:that we're doing here is not only
about your learning, my learning and
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:really exploring what's going on.
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:With America, but also
future leadership and
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:Your moral compass that
drives your decisions.
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:I, instead of being online,
what I was doing was listening
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:to I wanna say books on tape.
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:No.
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:Just audio books.
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:And some things that have been in Yeah.
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:Cassettes.
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:Yeah.
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:And I got on a kick on early Christianity.
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:I mean, like early Christianity,
like first century, second century,
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:you know, like right there.
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:And I was kind of curious.
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:I'm doing a run on theology.
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:I have Islam in there.
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:I have some, Judaism in there.
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:Like, I'm kind of curious.
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:It's like, okay.
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:At the beginning of these things
they were causing a lot of problems
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:to a lot of people who are in power.
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:How early Christians really struggled
with a lot of the aspects of,
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:the faith and they debated them.
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:I mean, they debated them for
centuries, to get things sort
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:of where they needed to be.
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:There is a certain moral clarity that
I appreciate with the Catholic church.
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:They just straight up say
there's a sanctity to human life.
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:And that's it.
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:It is black and white.
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:And that leads to abortion.
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:That leads to capital punishment.
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:That leads to all aspects.
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:They said, Hey, this is the
line and you shall not cross it.
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:I sort of appreciate that and that's,
you know, that's not my moral framework
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:because there's like, well, it depends,
you know, I mean, you know, like, I think
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:we might actually look at, like, you and
I disagree a bit on capital punishment.
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:I'm like, oh, I don't want to
give this power to the state.
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:But on the other hand, it's like when
somebody does a truly heinous crime,
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:you're like, okay, well I get it.
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:My point on this is we shouldn't be
celebrating anybody's death, but I also
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:get it, but there's also a line that's
there, and I don't know what that line is.
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:There's like, you know,
a giddiness about it.
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:It's like you have to look at
somebody and be like, if you're
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:celebrating this like that, I would
question all of your, judgements.
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:Yeah, you see the gray
area that I'm dipping into.
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:It's like this isn't,
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:Jerremy: I get it.
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:Dave: Like I don't want to demonize
people for their beliefs and their
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:feelings on things, but like the
glee on it is oh, that is gross.
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:And there was glee around Osama bin Laden.
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:There's glee.
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:When a pedophile is
put to death, there is,
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:Jerremy: you're getting into the whole
like baby Hitler discussion also, right?
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:when you talk about moral
compasses, here's my general take
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:on humanity, and human rights.
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:you a human?
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: Meaning are you doing
your best serve humanity as what?
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:I think all of ancestral
lineages would agree.
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:doing a good job of trying to be a human.
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:We all struggle and you got
a b plus on human this week.
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:Got it.
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:Jerremy: 'Cause here was a challenge
with some of the glee, right?
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:There was a lot of people that was
throwing around the N word, Nazi.
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:Dave: Oh,
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:Jerremy: word,
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:Dave: that's not good.
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:That's not good.
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:Jerremy: They're calling
a Charlie Kirk a Nazi.
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:And here's my big
challenge with that word,
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:Dave: Oh, it's bad.
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:Jerremy: if someone uses that word
in relation to another person because
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:they're white, because that's, a
Nazi obviously has to be white.
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:You are categorizing another
individual with someone who actually
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:murdered people often and a lot.
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:I would say by definition, you are a
heinous person that commits crimes and
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:murders people because of their race
and religion, then you are not a Nazi.
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: That's what they did.
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: to do that.
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:You have to be that exact individual
and that exact type of archetype.
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:And that's a heinous person.
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:So someone, in my opinion, who doesn't
value the human life in the terms of this
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:person is a living, breathing, aware,
conscious human, they are creating.
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:Disastrous energy, physically,
mentally, metaphorically, emotionally
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:and spiritually for other people.
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:And then they take another person's
life regardless of who they are.
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:That person begins to lose certain human
and imitable rights, in my opinion.
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:That's just kinda my belief, right?
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:You start taking now.
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:Now if two individuals
sign up for a boxing match.
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:And they sign all their waivers and
one other person gets beat to death
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:'cause it's a bare knuckle boxing match.
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:I generally, I'm not gonna celebrate
the fact that the other person
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:died because I am a great righteous
person, I feel like most of the time.
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:But number two, they
agreed to that proposition.
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:They knew going into that right.
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:Signing the waiver and writing everything
out, that this is an actual possibility.
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: when you have a.
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:A gentleman, who is known for saying
very controversial things for sure.
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:So this is Ben Shapiro, right?
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:So it's Jordan Peterson.
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:So this is Joe Rogan, right?
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:For an individual saying controversial
things it, and then on a college
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:campus for free in front of thousands
of young people gets assassinated.
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:That particular person lost
all of their human rights,
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:Dave: Nobody deserves death on the
basis of what they say, even if
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:it's heinous, is what I'm hearing.
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:Jerremy: Yep.
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: Exactly.
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:'Cause that's the whole like,
free speech thing and so yeah.
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:You should not.
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:Again, you can have rights and you
can have privileges, and you can
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:have things that get taken away
from you for a period of time.
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:There's a lot of people, and again,
I follow Twitter on both sides very
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:aggressively, but there's a lot of
people that are losing their jobs
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:because they started celebrating,
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: Charlie Kirk's death,
and they were saying things
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:like he brought it to himself.
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:He was a huge gunner owner.
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:He would saying these things about the
Second Amendment and he said that people
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:would have to die to, for the America
to keep their Second Amendment rights.
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:Good on you, Charlie.
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:You brought it on yourself, right?
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:Saying a lot of quotes.
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:That was the vice president of
a college that I'm close to.
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:MTSU.
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:Murphysboro Tate Murphysboro, state
tech University, I think MSTU.
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:It's whatever.
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:It's, and that vice president lost
their job within three hours and
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:there were a lot of people that
fell into that same fate of saying
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:something online that was glee, to
use your term, very happy about it.
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:And they got fired.
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:Good.
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:Yeah.
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:I would fire you too, right?
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:Because there's a time and
a place and that's not it.
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:When I say there's a time and a place
like in a discussion, in a debate,
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:in a historical context, in a, paper
context, in a educational or scholarly
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:context, there can be situations where
you can have these conversations.
336
:But to have extreme excitement
over anyone dying, especially
337
:someone who has kids, unacceptable.
338
:Dave: Yeah.
339
:Jerremy: Yeah, man, it is, yeah we
do, we have really cool different
340
:opinions and that's great, man.
341
:But that's the part is you're never
going to maliciously attack me for
342
:just simply having a belief, because
if you get offended, that's all right.
343
:You can just be offended.
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:Now, here is one thing that I will say.
345
:The brokenness of any country is in direct
proportion to the brokenness of men.
346
:Dave: Ooh.
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:Jerremy: The brokenness of any
country is in direct proportion
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:to the brokenness of men.
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:It is men who rape.
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:It is men who kill.
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:Dave: Yeah.
352
:Jerremy: is men who torture.
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:It is men who create the
most heinous crimes by far.
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:Dave: Yep.
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:Jerremy: Who shoots up schools?
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:Dave: Yeah,
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:Jerremy: who commits assassinations?
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:Men.
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:Dave: Under 30.
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:Man, you're crazy, right?
361
:Jerremy: Yeah.
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:Who tortures and serial killers,
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:Dave: Yep.
364
:Jerremy: Yes, women can
commit atrocities, right?
365
:Duh.
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:But it is far male,
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:Dave: Yep.
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:Jerremy: and it's generally a white
male, that's gonna commit the heinous
369
:of crimes the most atrocious of crimes.
370
:Often, at least
domestically here in the us.
371
:And so me to understand, and the fun
polarization and this probably might
372
:be a whole different conversation
for a whole different time, the
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:toxic masculinity approach of men.
374
:The patriarchal system is
what's causing the problem.
375
:I get it.
376
:I see it, I understand it.
377
:I know why people feel that way.
378
:And at the same time to pander to
individuals saying that there is no
379
:such thing as a biological male at
birth and a biological female at birth.
380
:And that, that just doesn't exist wild.
381
:Because I think in that.
382
:Opposition statement
is a lot of solutions.
383
:And what I mean by that is we
actually talked pretty early on
384
:about school shootings and obviously
how horrific that all always is.
385
:And again, it's almost always male.
386
:98% of the time, what if in
this country we treated men a
387
:little differently intentionally.
388
:Intentionally
389
:Differently because, oh you
were born a male, you are a
390
:Therefore the likelihood that
you are going to be a disaster
391
:has automatically increased.
392
:Dave: I think I know where
you're going with this.
393
:It's we're not saying
you're a dude, you're bad.
394
:We're saying, Hey, just the reality
of it is that you need more care.
395
:You need more water,
you need more feeding.
396
:You need extra.
397
:Extra.
398
:We wanna make sure that we love you up and
we make sure that you have what you need.
399
:Because when you go bad.
400
:Bad,
401
:Yeah.
402
:Jerremy: And if in school, okay,
everyone ladies you get to go have
403
:recess and go do whatever you wanna do.
404
:And all, for all my boys,
it's breathing time.
405
:Dave: Yeah.
406
:Jerremy: And just breathe and
407
:Packed, animals by nature.
408
:Biologically we are prone
to do better in groups.
409
:And I think, again, man, just
ultimately, yeah, to your point,
410
:nothing to do with men versus women.
411
:It has everything to do with if men are
treated well, if we have leaders, and
412
:this is a whole nother topic I'm about
to bring up, but if we have actual people
413
:who lead from a heart-centered place, a
place of love, and of compassion and care.
414
:Very good chance they can stir and lead
movements of men to do the exact same
415
:thing because inherently men are not bad.
416
:We're not evil.
417
:But if and take untaken care of is
probably not the best grammatical
418
:term, but if we are left to our own
devices men are the biggest problem
419
:that faced this us are unhealed,
420
:Dave: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: angry little
boys dressed up as men.
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:Dave: Oh, we see this internationally
too, like the, when you strip a man's
423
:purpose and you ensure that they have
no way out, it's very radicalizing,
424
:and that's how you get terrorists.
425
:That is exactly the feed into.
426
:Radicalization, and that's how you get
a young man to strap a bomb to themself
427
:is to be like, Hey, this is terrible.
428
:The world's terrible.
429
:Everyone's terrible, and those
are the people over there
430
:that are causing you problems.
431
:So strap on this vest and start shooting
people up, and that, that is the path.
432
:But when somebody sees a path forward,
they get a job, they can get a job, they
433
:can start a family, they can have kids.
434
:The generic, whatever it is of.
435
:Purpose and direction, then it's
like, all of that is just noise.
436
:It's there is nobody that has
purpose and love in their life and
437
:people in their life that thinks
I'm gonna shoot up a school.
438
:Jerremy: Correct.
439
:Dave: But on the other side of this,
the person who's shooting up the school
440
:doesn't have any of those things.
441
:Are they tied together?
442
:Yeah.
443
:So let's let's live up these
guys and let's figure this out.
444
:And that's where it's,
before we leave this.
445
:Because we have a lot to
talk about here today.
446
:I want to show you a video that actually
came out right after President Trump when
447
:he was on the campaign trail was shot.
448
:And it's our buddy Peter Zhan, who just
really sees the world in a different way.
449
:We're gonna play this,
we're gonna watch it.
450
:We can't do this on our podcast
right now, but I'll put a link to
451
:it in the show notes if you wanna
see what we're talking about.
452
:Okay, so we just watched the Zon thing.
453
:What do you, I think you
laid out a compelling case.
454
:What do you think
455
:Jerremy: I agree.
456
:Man.
457
:That guy is so smart.
458
:Dave: that was A year over a year ago.
459
:Jerremy: crazy.
460
:Nailed it.
461
:Him and the Simpsons are time travelers.
462
:Dave: So I, you know, I.
463
:Everybody who's listening to
this just take six minutes and
464
:watch that thing from Zhan.
465
:But he's basically setting up
exactly what we're seeing today,
466
:which is a lot of turmoil.
467
:But what we didn't hear is like, okay,
we know it's gonna get weird or weirder.
468
:Maybe this is as weird as
it's gonna get, but maybe not.
469
:So what do you, how do we get out of this?
470
:Where do we go from here?
471
:Like every one of those things
that he mentioned, whether it was
472
:Reconstruction or the Civil War or
the Great Depression, like those
473
:getting out of those were a thing.
474
:So what do you what's next?
475
:What's the Jerremy?
476
:Newsom Crystal Ball.
477
:Jerremy: Man, the challenge is we need
leaders who actually care and who don't
478
:Dave: Yeah.
479
:Jerremy: instantly.
480
:I was wondering how long it would
take me before I got to the absolute
481
:horrific statement that Trump made
after Charlie Kirk got assassinated.
482
:Blaming the left instantly.
483
:And dude, to be that callous is
484
:Dave: Yeah.
485
:Jerremy: unbelievable.
486
:Dave: Yeah.
487
:It's bonkers.
488
:Jerremy: because at the time, it could
have been another podcast host didn't like
489
:Charlie 'cause he was a competitor, could
have been a bad business deal gone wrong.
490
:Charlie had a bunch of money,
he did a lot of things going on,
491
:like he had a lot of investments.
492
:Could have been anything.
493
:And for him to just in instantly.
494
:That's what we need, man.
495
:We need someone who can actually
lead with a heart and is just kind
496
:and compassionate and has a moral
compass and thinks for 25 seconds
497
:before they get extremely emotional.
498
:I can get extremely emotional as
well, but that's why I didn't really
499
:say anything for a very long time.
500
:Still really haven't, other than my just
general post of listen when the world is
501
:an absolute shit storm, it's because of
some stupid ass guy doing something wrong.
502
:'cause he is very angry like that.
503
:Dave: Yeah.
504
:Jerremy: And
505
:Dave: Yeah.
506
:Jerremy: Yeah man, I mean it just, to
me, I think big crystal ball a lot of
507
:it's gonna stem from, a lot of this
economy situation that's happening
508
:right now is Trump really gave everyone
an insider trading tip on the broader
509
:markets when he posted in April.
510
:On Twitter, right from his Twitter
account like, this is a great time to buy
511
:stocks right at its low, at its bottom.
512
:I think there's a lot of
manipulation in the White House.
513
:Now, again I still think it's
almost entirely all about money
514
:and legacy and wealth for Trump.
515
:Again, that's just kinda
my personal opinion.
516
:But ultimately, the big shift is going to
come from a very unifying moment as insane
517
:as it is, and as Peter mentioned in that
video, I think this might've been it, this
518
:might've been some unification maybe not
a unification moment, maybe unification
519
:of a certain party or a certain group of
individuals, but for an individualistic
520
:pinpoint era, for something to
happen, for everyone to come together.
521
:really hope it isn't what it
probably will end up having to be.
522
:But I really would like it to be
something that would, that's much,
523
:I have no idea what it'll be.
524
:But at this point, maybe
it's the economy, right?
525
:Meaning the unification that brings
everyone together is the greatest
526
:economy in the world where everyone's
extremely wealthy we have a humongous
527
:crash and everyone is pitiful together.
528
:And we don't we just blame.
529
:Sure, everyone blames Trump
and they blame the economy.
530
:But now you have something that everyone
can focus on, which is, what happened
531
:in 2008, which is one of the big reasons
why Obama got elected was just that big
532
:hey, we had Bush as president for eight
years and the economy's collapsing.
533
:Everyone can rally behind that.
534
:And he had that message at the
right time, at the right place.
535
:And I think with the rate cut
right around the corner at this
536
:point, pretty much just baked in.
537
:I think prices of assets, as I've
been saying for a little bit, they.
538
:Seemingly are gonna continue to go higher.
539
:Alex: Jerremy slams celebrating any
death as a humanity check, while Dave
540
:draws uneasy parallels to bin Laden.
541
:Their back-and-forth exposes
the tension in judging others.
542
:Yet the raw turn waits—when Nazi
slurs fly casually, what does that
543
:do to real human rights and dignity?
