You Don't Need a Degree to Build a Real Business Career

Jerremy: 00:00:00

School or trades.

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That's the debate.

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No one tells you that

there's a third door.

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For years, there's been a whole

other group of people who just

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end up building something.

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They figure it out, took the hit

when it didn't work, and went

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back and did it anyway, asking

for more, and a lot of them.

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Never finished college.

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My name is Jerremy Alexander Newsom

with my co-host Dave DC Conley, and

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this is solving America's problems.

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James Klein has spent 45 years as an

entrepreneur doing it, supplements,

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consulting, and he did it with no degree.

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No website.

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His consulting practice runs entirely

on word of mouth because that's how

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real business has always worked.

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He also has a kid in medical school right

now, so he holds both truths at once.

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He thinks a recession is closer than

most people want to admit, and he's lived

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through enough of them to know what the

early signs actually look and feel like.

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James, welcome to the show.

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James Klein: Thank you

so much for having me on.

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Jerremy: Yeah, man, my pleasure.

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So 45 years as an entrepreneur,

even in IT restaurant supplements

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consultings, but you never finished

university, which is really cool.

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I think when your peers were

following the school degree,

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get a stable job script, right?

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That contract that we've all.

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Seen or hurt or felt, what

were you doing instead of that?

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And did it feel like you were

gambling or just the only thing

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that made sense to you at the time?

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James Klein: In retrospect,

it was the only thing that

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made sense to me at the time.

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I was in school about 19 years old when

my father was diagnosed with cancer,

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Jerremy: I.

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James Klein: and I had been working

in the family business summers and

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weekends from the age of about 15.

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So as his health deteriorated, I

became more active in the business.

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I went from a full loaded school

to a part-time loaded school,

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with the goal of graduating, I.

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For whatever reason, things just

didn't work out that way and regrets.

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I recognized early on I do not

have the disposition to be a good

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employee and realized that I needed

to be the captain of my own ship.

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Jerremy: Which is a lot of people

don't sail their own ship, man.

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They're scared to go out into

those open waters, you know?

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James Klein: so.

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Jerremy: Yeah.

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Dave: I love, I love that you

had the self-awareness at 19.

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Me.

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I, I'm still working on my self-awareness.

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it was self-awareness at

19 to be like, man, I don't

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think I could work for anyone.

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I, how has, how has that served you?

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like running your own business

and, and, doing your own thing

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for, you know, quite successfully?

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James Klein: I've, I've realized over time

that the first impressions I form about

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people almost a hundred percent accurate.

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I don't like you in the first 60

seconds, we're talking, chances

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are I'm never gonna like you.

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And in the business mistakes I've made

have been in situations where my gut.

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Told me no, and I talked myself into

ahead and making a deal regardless.

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So, you know, it, it's just,

it's part of the process.

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Anybody who says that the entrepreneurial

journey is a straight line fooling

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themselves and everybody they talk

to, it's very much a rollercoaster.

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things are good, things can be

very good, but when things are

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bad, they could be horrific.

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Jerremy: And James, you have a,

you have a child in medical school

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right now, the one, the one case

where the degree isn't optional.

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It's the only door to go through.

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What does it feel like to be the father

who has skipped a contract and the father

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who's also fully funding the one that

requires that contract at the same time?

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James Klein: Oh, I'm proud.

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I'm in Canada and.

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Getting into Canadian medical

school is even more difficult than

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getting into US medical schools.

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Dave: Yeah.

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James Klein: All the kids are smart.

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is not nearly as much of a

factor in the Canadian medical

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schools as it is in the us.

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Tuition is the equivalent of

about 20,000 US dollars a year.

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Dave: Hmm.

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James Klein: where the equivalent

medical schools in the US are 75

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or a hundred thousand dollars.

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the application process is absolutely

brutal, there's such a small percentage of

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kids who actually get into medical school.

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it, it just reminds me to be

immensely proud on a daily basis.

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My kid wanted this from

the age of five and.

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were going to do everything

to make it happen.

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And luckily she worked really hard

in school, got great marks, was a

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much better student than I ever was.

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this is, this has been the

chosen career path forever.

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So we knew it was gonna happen

and it was just a matter of time.

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Dave: I,

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Jerremy: Yeah.

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Dave: I love that some of the

smartest people I know went to

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Jerremy: Mm-hmm.

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Dave: they also said that it is also

the coldest that they have ever been.

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James Klein: Yeah.

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If, if, you know, Canada, Montreal is

really far from the coldest is generally

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in the prairies ver eastern part of

Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba, where

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there's nothing to stop the wind where

it could be 40 below for days on end.

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Dave: Oh my

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James Klein: That said, I, I, I did

have some friends from Denver visit me

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end of January to go to a hockey game,

and it was 20 below every day with

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the windshield, so it was damn cold.

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Jerremy: Yeah, that's unbelievably cold.

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James Klein: Yes.

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Dave: So you've oh, go ahead.

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Jerremy: Yeah, so I, I, I've heard you

say before, James, like a, a, a khap

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economy winners going one way and everyone

else kind of falling behind, right?

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That the rich get richer, the poor

get poor kind of discussion in a way.

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And I really like that phrase, that

term, the K shaped economy from

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your consulting work with business

owners trying to launch and scale.

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Where do you actually see that

split happening in real time?

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The rich get richer.

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The poor get poor.

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Like what is the

distinguishing difference?

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Is it a moment in time?

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Is it money?

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Is it a decision?

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What?

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What causes it to have that pop?

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James Klein: It is a

combination of multiple things.

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Think first of all, the business owners

who have money to invest in scaling their

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businesses, if they do it properly and

there's actually a good product market

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fit, and people are interested in what

they're selling, the sky's the limit.

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Where things I think will be difficult for

most entrepreneurs over the next couple

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of years those who are bootstrapped don't

have a ton of working capital and or are

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in industries that are going to suffer.

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So it, it's very much, I, I think it's

very important that people be self-aware.

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Be sure that the market actually wants

the, what they're selling, but to find

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whatever way is necessary to have the

working capital to survive the rocky

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times that I'm convinced are ahead of us.

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Jerremy: I mean, so tell

me about the capital.

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I mean, because that's the

part that I'm, I love the most,

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regarding business and also.

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I think most people probably

struggle with the most.

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So when you say the

capital, how much is that?

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What does it look like?

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What are the constraints end up happening?

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James Klein: It, it really depends if the

person for, in the example of marketers

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and, sorry, I'll start that over again.

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It really depends what business

the entrepreneur is in.

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So for example, if they're selling some

form of physical goods, need enough

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money to have sufficient inventory

to be able to sustain momentum.

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If they're selling a service, like

a coaching program or something

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along those lines, it's not nearly

as capital intensive, but they need

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money to be able to advertise and

promote and grow their businesses.

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I'm hopeful that advertising

prices are going to come down

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as the economy transitions.

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Plus, I think with the recent rulings

against Meta YouTube, I think the

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platforms are going to have to have a

different look at how they're doing some

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things, I hope that will ultimately result

in more reasonable advertising costs.

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But you know, capital, especially

if you're selling a physical

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good and you need inventory.

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Capital is the name of the game.

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If could have the best product in

the world and you could build great

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momentum, but if you go out of stock.

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Getting that momentum back is

twice as hard as it was the first

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time because you lose credibility

with your existing customers.

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They've moved on to a competitor's

product, and then you either have to play

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discount game or just go after acquiring

new customers to backfill the ones you

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lost because you were out of stock.

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And you know, as we know, the banks.

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generally not super friendly to smaller

entrepreneurs who need working capital.

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So quite often it's the alternative

forms of capital that come in.

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So for example, if you're running a

Shopify store, has Shopify capital

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where they make money available to

you based on your sales trajectory.

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Amazon has similar

programs, so does TikTok.

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So it's finding these alternative lenders.

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So that you can properly fund

your business and keep everything

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moving in the right direction.

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Jerremy: Yeah.

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Dave: so you see a lot of these

entrepreneurs, and I, I think is.

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I mean, I, I did entrepreneur

consulting for a number of years and

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angel investing and the rest of it.

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And I, and I, and I saw both, you

know, what I would call entrepreneurs.

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And then I, I saw a lot of people

who are sort of in the hobby of it.

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and I think entrepreneurship

has this, idea of, you know, be

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your own boss, build something.

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How many do you see that are actually

building something versus trading

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one form of precarity for another?

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James Klein: I'm very lucky in

that the people I'm working with.

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Generally tend be beyond the launch

phase and they have a certain critical

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mass in their business, and I'm helping

them find the missed opportunities

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and optimizing what it is they're

selling scale to the next level.

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I generally will never work

with somebody who's brand new.

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first of all, I'm too expensive for them.

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And that like I'm intentionally

expensive and I have friends who are

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telling me I should double my rates,

I use my price as a pressure test

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because if they balk it all at paying

me, then I know they don't have the

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money to properly scale their business.

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I'm, I'm very lucky in that most

of the entrepreneurs I work with

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realize that it's hard work.

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It's much easier to work a 40 hour a

week job than it is to build a business.

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Dave: Right.

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James Klein: At this point in my

life, I still work 60 plus hours

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most weeks, and that's by choice.

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I love what I do.

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I find it very stimulating,

I'm happy to do it.

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That said, a lot of people

think, oh, sure, it's easy.

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they find a low barrier to entry industry.

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They go in, they build a Shopify store

or a WordPress site or whatever it is,

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and they think they're in business.

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They have no teams, no systems, no SOPs,

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Jerremy: I'm attacked.

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I'm feel,

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James Klein: gonna grow.

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Jerremy: I feel attacked.

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James Klein: Yes.

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But we all do it.

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Jerremy: Yeah.

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James Klein: And you know, the other

thing that I'm constantly telling

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everybody I work with, even if they

do have teams, the team that got them

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to whatever level they're at, in most

cases in my experience, is not the team

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that will take them to the next level.

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Jerremy: Yeah.

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James Klein: So it's great to

be loyal to your employees.

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Absolutely.

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Treat them well.

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the Hire a players, always.

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You know, the best ones you can afford.

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But just realize that at certain

points you're gonna have to make

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changes or bring in new talent.

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Jerremy: Right.

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So maybe the, there's probably a

few core pieces to this podcast that

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people are gonna really wanna tune

into and listen, and big shout outs to

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the Mastermind that you and I are in,

which is Four Rooms with Amber Spears.

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Just an incredible organization and

really, really remarkable people.

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But this question might be

very helpful for so many.

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Entrepreneurs and business

owners and people that wanna

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start and want to create.

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When you built your consulting

business, you did it entirely on word

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of mouth, and you have no website,

which was a choice and a design in

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an error where everyone is told to

build a personal brand and optimize

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their LinkedIn or you know, whatever.

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Facebook, Instagram, YouTube.

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What does it say that the business has

always worked, still works the best.

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James Klein: I think part of

it is a generational thing.

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I didn't grow up with a camera in my hand.

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So I try to take a selfie,

my kid laughs at me and says,

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oh my God, you're so awkward.

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The thought of a personal brand to me at

this point in my life creates anxiety.

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There's nothing attractive to me

posting reels on Facebook or LinkedIn

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or Instagram day, sharing little

tidbits of wisdom or doing it,

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trying to build an email list or.

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Get cold leads.

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That's just not how I work.

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I've always been a relationships person.

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I like to get to know the person

before we ever do business.

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I wanna see if we're a good fit.

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I don't like you, I don't care how

much money you're offering me, I

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don't wanna work with you because.

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I have to feel good about what

I'm doing, so if I don't believe

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in you, I don't believe in the

product you're selling, then I want

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absolutely nothing to do with it.

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And how this consulting business started.

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You mentioned Amber.

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Well, early on in COVID, we were part

of a group of about 600 marketers

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on Facebook, and I was sharing lots

of information about FDA warning

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letters and FTC warning letters.

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Especially early on in COVID supplement

companies were saying, take vitamin C.

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You won't get COVID.

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Take this, you'll be fine.

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And I would be calling out all

these companies and sharing warning

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letters from the FDA saying, no,

this company cannot say that.

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And we've made them, we've

sent them a cease and desist.

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And one day Amber called me and

my phone rang and I said, hello.

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And she didn't even respond with Hello.

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The question was, what

the F are you doing?

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I said, what do you mean?

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She says, you've got 20 plus

years in the supplement industry.

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Why are you giving away

your knowledge for free?

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Start a consulting business?

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Literally 24 hours later, I went into

that group and created a post that said,

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Hey, I've been doing this for a long time.

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If anybody needs help with supplements or

branding or marketing, I'm happy to talk.

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Within 36 hours, I had money in

the bank for my first client.

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and six years later it's going strong.

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I'm as busy as I can be right now.

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I have no, almost no bandwidth for

any new clients, so it makes me very

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choosy in terms of who I will work with.

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my biggest thing is always over deliver.

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If you promise to do X, do x plus

something show that you are worth

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whatever this business is paying you.

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And I want the people who work with me

view the money they spend with me as

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an investment rather than an expense.

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If they spend a dollar with me,

I want them to five x, 10 x, 20

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Jerremy: yeah.

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Alex: James spent 45 years beating

the system—and now he's warning

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the system itself is cracking.

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The recession signals he can't ignore

are already LIVE, and the capital

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mistake that sinks most small businesses?

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Most won't see it coming.