Gerrymandering's Grip: Why Your Vote Feels Silenced Before Election Day

Jerremy: 00:00:00

Dave D.

2

: 00:00:01

C Conley.

3

: 00:00:02

There's thousands and thousands of

people all over the United States

4

: 00:00:05

that are eager to learn what we're

talking about in this episode.

5

: 00:00:09

Dave: In this week's episode of Solving

America's Problems, we take on the forces

6

: 00:00:13

shaping not just who wins elections,

but how our choices are boxed in before

7

: 00:00:17

ballots are even cast gerrymander.

8

: 00:00:20

Districts lock in extremes over

competition, leaving us on the sidelines

9

: 00:00:24

and wondering if voices even matter.

10

: 00:00:26

Our guest, Reed Bauman joins us with

the perspective of an everyday voter

11

: 00:00:30

whose first ballot in a Georgia

firehouse back in: 2008

12

: 00:00:34

McCain against Barack Obama was both

a rite of passage and a glimpse of the

13

: 00:00:38

frustrations baked into the system.

14

: 00:00:40

From rickety booths, long lines and vague

ballot measures to the larger machinery

15

: 00:00:45

that decides outcomes before election day.

16

: 00:00:47

Reid helps us trace how individual votes

connect to a systemic failure and where

17

: 00:00:51

reform could restore real representation.

18

: 00:00:54

And that's this week on

solving America's problems.

19

: 00:00:57

Unpacking gerrymandering, how polarization

steel solutions with Reid Bauman.

20

: 00:01:02

Jerremy: I've got an

interesting stat for everyone.

21

: 00:01:04

65%, only 65% of Americans, which

is 154 million people voted last

22

: 00:01:12

year, which believe it or not, is

the third highest turnout in decades.

23

: 00:01:18

But those same Americans, if they

trusted the system to count their

24

: 00:01:24

votes, only 59% of those people say yes.

25

: 00:01:28

We've built the largest voting

system of any democracy on the

26

: 00:01:32

planet while simultaneously

making it the most confusing.

27

: 00:01:37

Every state and territory

has different rules.

28

: 00:01:41

21 states expanded access, 10 Titan

security, and somehow we're more

29

: 00:01:47

anxious about democracy than ever.

30

: 00:01:49

My name is Jerremy Alexander Newsom.

31

: 00:01:50

My co-host is Dave Conley, and

this is Solving America's problems.

32

: 00:01:55

Today we're hearing from Reed B.

33

: 00:01:58

On what it's really like

to step into the booth.

34

: 00:02:01

Reid,

35

: 00:02:03

thanks for being here, man.

36

: 00:02:05

Reed: anytime?

37

: 00:02:06

Jerremy: It's gonna be exciting

conversation just to go back and

38

: 00:02:09

forth and just share what we're doing.

39

: 00:02:11

But this is a fun first question, Reid.

40

: 00:02:13

Paint us a picture, man.

41

: 00:02:15

What's the very first

memory you have of voting?

42

: 00:02:19

And then I want to hear from my

boy, Dave, and I'll share mine.

43

: 00:02:21

Reed: I grew up pretty

electorally involved.

44

: 00:02:27

But my first election was 2008,

John McCain versus Barack Obama.

45

: 00:02:33

And,

46

: 00:02:33

it was in my hometown, like

fire station voting booth, and I

47

: 00:02:38

walked in and cast my ballot for

48

: 00:02:40

John McCain.

49

: 00:02:42

That was my first memory.

50

: 00:02:43

Voting.

51

: 00:02:44

Jerremy: Nice.

52

: 00:02:45

Nice.

53

: 00:02:46

In a fire in a firehouse

54

: 00:02:48

station.

55

: 00:02:49

I love it.

56

: 00:02:51

What about you, Dave?

57

: 00:02:52

Reed: Georgia.

58

: 00:02:53

Dave: Oh let's see.

59

: 00:02:54

It was

60

: 00:02:55

Jerremy: 1917

61

: 00:02:57

and,

62

: 00:02:57

Dave: not quite the it was it was

Bill Clinton against George Bush.

63

: 00:03:03

And my first memory, and this

is this was the same for years

64

: 00:03:08

because it was exactly the same.

65

: 00:03:09

I grew up in Northern Virginia and I went

to everybody goes to this high school

66

: 00:03:13

that's nearby, and it's the only high

school that covers that, that part of the

67

: 00:03:16

county and the lines were out the door.

68

: 00:03:20

Now I think what was great about

it was, and again, I, it's probably

69

: 00:03:26

the exact same as it is today.

70

: 00:03:28

You're in this line, it's a little

bit cold outside because it's

71

: 00:03:31

the fall in Northern Virginia.

72

: 00:03:33

And you wait and you wait and you get

inside a gymnasium that has like those

73

: 00:03:37

crazy bright lights and this very old

lady comes up and hands you a ballot

74

: 00:03:42

and you then you have to wait in line

again and you go to these funny booths

75

: 00:03:47

that, they clearly just set up, right?

76

: 00:03:50

They just unfolded it, it's

like this rickety table.

77

: 00:03:53

And it has these dividers

on the left and the right.

78

: 00:03:56

I think they were paper or plastic.

79

: 00:03:58

And you get there and you you fill out

these bubbles and then inevitably somebody

80

: 00:04:02

around you goes, ah, I messed up my thing.

81

: 00:04:04

And so then they have to go and

they have to shred the ballot.

82

: 00:04:07

Little old lady comes back up

to you, hands you the ballot,

83

: 00:04:10

and then you go and do it again.

84

: 00:04:11

You fill out the bubbles.

85

: 00:04:12

then you hand in the bubble,

it goes into this machine, it

86

: 00:04:15

looks like a giant shredder.

87

: 00:04:16

It goes ZZ and that's it.

88

: 00:04:19

They hand and then they stamp you, like

they, they give you the I voted sticker so

89

: 00:04:23

you can show everybody at work that, hey,

I voted, and then it was out the door.

90

: 00:04:26

They, the only thing that really

sticks with me not necessarily like

91

: 00:04:30

voting for the president or any

of that is all the things that I

92

: 00:04:33

didn't know was gonna be on there.

93

: 00:04:35

Particularly like all the crap that

the county puts on there because

94

: 00:04:39

they refuse to do their job.

95

: 00:04:41

Like they, they will, they, they

don't want to actually balance

96

: 00:04:45

the budget of this giant county,

Fairfax County, it's monster, right?

97

: 00:04:49

They want to make you

vote for extra money.

98

: 00:04:53

So they'll put these bond initiatives

on there and they'll always

99

: 00:04:57

make it like the craziest thing.

100

: 00:04:58

They'll be like.

101

: 00:05:00

Do you wanna feed orphans

and protect puppies and have

102

: 00:05:05

your schools open next year?

103

: 00:05:07

Vote for this a hundred

million dollar budget, right?

104

: 00:05:09

This bond.

105

: 00:05:10

And I'm like, of course everybody wants to

vote for that, but that's not the point.

106

: 00:05:14

They refuse to do the

rest of the budgeting.

107

: 00:05:17

And so like they, they'll put the

like craziest thing that you say,

108

: 00:05:20

of course I wanna vote for this.

109

: 00:05:21

And that's what always sticks

with me is that my county didn't

110

: 00:05:24

want to really do its job.

111

: 00:05:25

So they'll take care of everything

that, that is actually controversial

112

: 00:05:29

and put like the least controversial

thing that everybody has to vote

113

: 00:05:32

for on the bond initiatives.

114

: 00:05:33

That's, that was my

first memory of voting.

115

: 00:05:36

What about you?

116

: 00:05:38

Jerremy: I like it.

117

: 00:05:38

Maya's weird man, because

probably a little bit of a blend

118

: 00:05:41

maybe between both of yours.

119

: 00:05:42

But so as growing up a Jo's

Witness, one of their doctrines

120

: 00:05:47

is that you don't vote, right?

121

: 00:05:48

Because they don't want you to be any

part of this world or this system as

122

: 00:05:53

I say in air quotes for our listeners.

123

: 00:05:55

And so I was in that religion

mentally and physically until I

124

: 00:05:59

was 24, which is only 13 years ago.

125

: 00:06:03

So my very first vote cast

was Obama versus MIT Romney.

126

: 00:06:10

And I voted for Mitt Romney,

although I knew Obama was gonna win.

127

: 00:06:16

And when I walked in, it was

a middle school, so I had to

128

: 00:06:21

Google where the heck do I vote?

129

: 00:06:24

I remember doing that,

like, where do I vote?

130

: 00:06:27

And like it was like, put in your zip

code, it will tell you where to go.

131

: 00:06:29

And I put on my zip code and

I was like, there's no way I

132

: 00:06:31

go to a middle school library.

133

: 00:06:34

And sure enough, and they're

like, make sure you bring your id.

134

: 00:06:36

And this was in Tennessee

at the time Nashville.

135

: 00:06:39

And I'm trying to think of what the

school was Reed, but it was somewhere

136

: 00:06:44

out in Bellevue, some random middle

school in Bellevue, in a library.

137

: 00:06:49

And I went into this library and to

your point, Dave, I went in there and

138

: 00:06:53

I thought I would go to something and

just put in my vote for president.

139

: 00:06:57

that was it.

140

: 00:06:58

Here's the president.

141

: 00:06:59

Boom.

142

: 00:06:59

You pick.

143

: 00:07:00

Nope, there's 75 things I voted for and

I had no clue what any of them were.

144

: 00:07:04

I was like I felt like so stupid.

145

: 00:07:06

I just started clicking buttons

'cause they were all mandatory, and

146

: 00:07:09

I just was clicking people's names.

147

: 00:07:11

I was like, I'll pick some

s and I'll pick some Ds.

148

: 00:07:14

I like, I'll let me

give like half and half.

149

: 00:07:16

Dunno who this person is.

150

: 00:07:17

Dunno what this is.

151

: 00:07:18

Should have looked that up.

152

: 00:07:19

Should have researched that.

153

: 00:07:20

Didn't know any of it.

154

: 00:07:21

Filled out this horrible voting forum.

155

: 00:07:23

I'm positive I voted

for something terrible.

156

: 00:07:25

Some.

157

: 00:07:26

So someone that's actually been a fear of

mine, someone's gonna pull up that voting

158

: 00:07:30

history and go, Jerremy iss a neo-Nazi.

159

: 00:07:32

Like he voted, you won't believe

what he voted for in: 2012

160

: 00:07:36

And yeah man I just filled out

this random thing and, or sorry.

161

: 00:07:41

Yeah it was just ultimately

one of those situations where I

162

: 00:07:44

got my sticker and that was it.

163

: 00:07:45

But afterwards, man, I researched so

much about who and what and all the

164

: 00:07:49

things and just started becoming a little

bit more inclined into the political

165

: 00:07:53

sphere as I started stepping out of that

particular religious belief into the

166

: 00:07:57

fact that I am okay to be a part of this

world and all that kinda good stuff.

167

: 00:08:01

And so I will say, going up to that

voting booth, I did not feel empowered.

168

: 00:08:06

I felt uninformed.

169

: 00:08:09

I wouldn't say frustrated for sure,

but I would certainly say that I didn't

170

: 00:08:15

really think what I was doing mattered.

171

: 00:08:18

Ultimately, I was just excited to do

it, 'cause I'd never done it before.

172

: 00:08:22

Reid, lemme throw this question to you.

173

: 00:08:23

If 59% of Americans say they actually

trust the count, what's your gut reaction

174

: 00:08:32

to that number and what's your opinion

on, does your vote actually matter?

175

: 00:08:35

Reid?

176

: 00:08:36

Reed: As to whether your vote

matters it's an aggregate, it's

177

: 00:08:39

like a hive mind type thing.

178

: 00:08:41

So individually, are you

gonna swing an election?

179

: 00:08:44

Almost guaranteed that

you won't but your vote.

180

: 00:08:48

That doesn't mean your vote doesn't

count, as far as 59% of people I would

181

: 00:08:53

be interested in historically, what

number of people have trusted the system?

182

: 00:08:56

I

183

: 00:08:56

would make a pretty confident assumption

that number is higher than it used

184

: 00:09:01

to be.

185

: 00:09:02

People have distrust in the

system has gone up as a result of

186

: 00:09:08

certain political forces basically

benefiting them to sow distrust

187

: 00:09:15

amongst the populist of the system.

188

: 00:09:18

So I think

189

: 00:09:18

that's probably a result of a lot

of political action and rhetoric.

190

: 00:09:23

Jerremy: Yeah.

191

: 00:09:24

Yeah, I feel like 59% is pretty high for

192

: 00:09:27

sure.

193

: 00:09:28

So you, you mentioned in your vote,

did you have to show ID at all when

194

: 00:09:34

you went to your firehouse station?

195

: 00:09:37

Reed: I don't remember,

to be honest with you.

196

: 00:09:39

I have no recollection of that.

197

: 00:09:40

I don't

198

: 00:09:40

think Georgia had a voter ID law

at the time, so probably not.

199

: 00:09:44

Jerremy: What's your general take on that?

200

: 00:09:45

Should we like have some type

of verification, registration

201

: 00:09:51

for voting.

202

: 00:09:52

Reed: I think it's a prickly issue.

203

: 00:09:54

You can't come right out and say that

you're against voter ID because that

204

: 00:09:58

is a political, it's a toxic statement

because if you're against voter id,

205

: 00:10:04

then you must be for voter fraud.

206

: 00:10:06

But I think as I read through the research

that you guys have done, and you need

207

: 00:10:12

to lay the groundwork to basically, dig

into the studies and everything, but

208

: 00:10:16

there's a lot of evidence that doesn't

really have an impact on elections.

209

: 00:10:20

So I think what it amounts to is

probably more of a waste of state

210

: 00:10:26

funds than anything to pass to have

voter ID laws and stuff like that.

211

: 00:10:30

And it's a show of election

security more than it is actual

212

: 00:10:34

election security because, who's

committing fraud in the elections?

213

: 00:10:40

Illegal immigrants or people like

that who are coming, are they coming

214

: 00:10:45

here to commit social engineering

fraud and go steal elections?

215

: 00:10:49

The amount of kind of collaboration

and expertise that would require.

216

: 00:10:54

Just is not really there for, and plus the

potential punishment if they're caught,

217

: 00:11:02

which it's not hard to be caught because

elections are secured by census data.

218

: 00:11:08

And backing up with people's

addresses so that there is one vote

219

: 00:11:11

per person even without voter ID

220

: 00:11:13

laws.

221

: 00:11:15

That answer the

222

: 00:11:16

Dave: Yeah, it totally does.

223

: 00:11:17

It made me make a note because I

was thinking about all of the people

224

: 00:11:21

who've been actually convicted

of voter fraud, and it's almost

225

: 00:11:26

exclusively politicians, political

operators, working for politicians.

226

: 00:11:30

So I think I'm on the

side that all politicians

227

: 00:11:33

need to

228

: 00:11:33

show their ID before they vote.

229

: 00:11:36

Reed: Those are the people who

would have a motive to commit fraud.

230

: 00:11:39

If I'm one person and my vote is gonna

be one of millions, what incentive is

231

: 00:11:45

there for me to try to commit fraud

just so I can cast my one vote that

232

: 00:11:49

probably

233

: 00:11:49

wouldn't want swing an

election, to go to prison.

234

: 00:11:53

Jerremy: So, what you're saying

and what I hear you saying is

235

: 00:11:57

the voter challenge is much higher

up the chain than an individual I a

236

: 00:12:01

person having or not having an id.

237

: 00:12:04

Reed: Yeah,

238

: 00:12:05

Jerremy: I like it.

239

: 00:12:06

I

240

: 00:12:06

like

241

: 00:12:07

it.

242

: 00:12:07

Reed: about right.

243

: 00:12:08

Jerremy: Yeah.

244

: 00:12:09

Okay.

245

: 00:12:10

Reed: I was gonna say earlier,

how funny would it be if they

246

: 00:12:12

were like

247

: 00:12:12

This initiative passed by one

vote and it was Jerremy Newsom.

248

: 00:12:16

Jerremy: Yeah, In 2012, this dude.

249

: 00:12:20

Reed: You're like, what did I vote for?

250

: 00:12:22

Jerremy: Yeah.

251

: 00:12:23

That's a good point.

252

: 00:12:24

But David and I in the last

episode, which you haven't heard

253

: 00:12:26

yet 'cause we just recorded it.

254

: 00:12:27

But to your point, one of my

thoughts and theories was.

255

: 00:12:32

It would probably be pretty easy

to require a voter id if every

256

: 00:12:38

state was like, Hey, listen,

you gotta bring a license.

257

: 00:12:41

Pretty straightforward.

258

: 00:12:43

Some verification form.

259

: 00:12:44

It wouldn't be very hard, I

don't think, to implement it.

260

: 00:12:48

Mostly because I just went,

I told Dave the story.

261

: 00:12:51

I went to a gym and I couldn't get into

the gym without a physical license,

262

: 00:12:54

like a, like it was a lifetime fitness.

263

: 00:12:56

They're like, you can't work out here.

264

: 00:12:58

You obviously, even though I had a picture

of my id, it didn't have the physical id.

265

: 00:13:02

So nah, sorry man, you can't do this.

266

: 00:13:05

And it was just a comical situation.

267

: 00:13:06

I'm like, all right if they can do it,

I'm sure there's probably a few other

268

: 00:13:10

places that could just implement a

relatively easy policy to make sure, but

269

: 00:13:15

to your point, even if you had every.

270

: 00:13:20

and I don't know the exact number

off the top of my head, but we did

271

: 00:13:22

just have a very long discussion on

immigration and illegal immigration.

272

: 00:13:26

But every single individual that did,

if they colluded somehow to together,

273

: 00:13:31

they'd have to all go to probably

the same state and all vote illegally

274

: 00:13:35

simultaneously for there to be any

type of swing or massive decision.

275

: 00:13:39

And then to your also point, if they did

that and they and everyone pulled that

276

: 00:13:43

off what actual change would they make?

277

: 00:13:47

So if the challenge is a lot higher,

Dave or Reed, where do we think it lays?

278

: 00:13:54

Is it in the electoral college?

279

: 00:13:56

Is it somewhere different?

280

: 00:13:57

Is there something else that

we should be looking at?

281

: 00:14:00

Reed: I have a thought on that, but

as to what you just said, with the

282

: 00:14:03

illegal I immigrants all moving to

one state and voting one way, that,

283

: 00:14:07

that would be very obvious, that

284

: 00:14:08

was occurring

285

: 00:14:10

Jerremy: Of course.

286

: 00:14:10

Reed: data, like looking

at the data and stuff like

287

: 00:14:12

that.

288

: 00:14:13

So it wouldn't, you can catch that

289

: 00:14:15

stuff by just going through the data and

making sure it matches reality, which

290

: 00:14:19

is something that political scientists

do, and that's part of the reason why

291

: 00:14:24

it's over the head of a lot of the

general public and that it's, they

292

: 00:14:27

don't trust political scientists or they

don't understand, the things like that.

293

: 00:14:32

But the issue that I think is

most important when it comes to

294

: 00:14:35

voting is gerrymandering 100%.

295

: 00:14:39

Because districts are gerrymandered

so that they're not competitive and.

296

: 00:14:44

You have essentially like in a

very heavily gerrymandered, let's

297

: 00:14:48

say red district, a congressional

candidate needs to win the primary.

298

: 00:14:54

If they win the primary, they

will win the general election.

299

: 00:14:56

It's basically a slam dunk,

already known outcome.

300

: 00:15:00

And therefore we're competing for

the primary and therefore there's

301

: 00:15:04

no incentive to nominate a person

who can win over moderate voters.

302

: 00:15:12

You're only looking for someone who

can win over the hard ideological

303

: 00:15:16

voters on one side or the other which

contributes to more polarized politics.

304

: 00:15:24

If we have districts across the board

where people have to compete for

305

: 00:15:28

moderate voters, we wouldn't have

as polarized of a political system.

306

: 00:15:33

We would have politicians who can work

across the aisle with the other side

307

: 00:15:37

because most Americans are actually not

hard ideologues on one side or the other.

308

: 00:15:44

Most people fall in the middle, and

that's the re part of the reason why those

309

: 00:15:47

people feel like they're not represented

because most of them live in a district

310

: 00:15:52

that's gerrymandered, so that someone

who is ideological on one side or the

311

: 00:15:57

other will always win their district.

312

: 00:16:01

And

313

: 00:16:01

therefore you have no one that

you really like to vote for.

314

: 00:16:04

No one's really competing for your vote.

315

: 00:16:07

Dave: So could you, So Jerremy

and I have been trying to do this.

316

: 00:16:11

Can you steal, man,

the other side of this?

317

: 00:16:13

What's good about gerrymandering?

318

: 00:16:15

If anything?

319

: 00:16:16

Can you think of anything like, ah,

320

: 00:16:18

Jerremy: I mean for the

higher up political people

321

: 00:16:19

who wanna win, it's great.

322

: 00:16:21

Dave: yeah, that's it.

323

: 00:16:22

Reed: Gerrymandering,

gerrymandering helps us win.

324

: 00:16:25

We barter with the other side.

325

: 00:16:26

We'll rig these

326

: 00:16:29

districts so that we can win and

you can rig the other districts.

327

: 00:16:34

But it's not, that's not

really the way that it is.

328

: 00:16:36

For, I don't know if they're having

those conversations like in higher up

329

: 00:16:40

rooms that we don't get to know about.

330

: 00:16:43

I doubt it because I think

it's a zero sum game.

331

: 00:16:48

We're trying to win as

many seats as we can

332

: 00:16:50

and basically disenfranchise the

other side because that's what it is.

333

: 00:16:53

It's anti-democratic.

334

: 00:16:56

Jerremy: Fascinating.

335

: 00:16:57

Love that term.

336

: 00:16:57

So here's a fun one

337

: 00:16:58

for you, Dave, right?

338

: 00:17:00

Gerrymandering.

339

: 00:17:02

It was a coin coined term from

Massachusetts governor in: 1812

340

: 00:17:09

Your third birthday.

341

: 00:17:10

I'm just kidding.

342

: 00:17:11

bunch of old jokes today.

343

: 00:17:12

Just a joke.

344

: 00:17:13

Governor.

345

: 00:17:15

Elbridge, Jerry noted that

one of the districts looked

346

: 00:17:18

like a mythical salamander.

347

: 00:17:23

And so I think that's probably

when it, but 18, 12, a little

348

: 00:17:27

bit ago, like a couple days ago,

but that's when he noticed it.

349

: 00:17:32

That's when the phrase gets coined.

350

: 00:17:34

So you can only, that's just a couple

of years before the nation gets founded.

351

: 00:17:40

17 seven.

352

: 00:17:41

It's not that,

353

: 00:17:43

Dave: by a guy named Jerry?

354

: 00:17:45

Jerremy: so they just

coined it Exactly that.

355

: 00:17:46

That's just when it gets coined.

356

: 00:17:47

So it's been around

357

: 00:17:48

Reed: It was coined by some political

cartoonists because it was, they called

358

: 00:17:53

it a gerrymander,

359

: 00:17:55

the district, because it looked like a,

360

: 00:17:58

Jerremy: yeah.

361

: 00:17:58

Dave: Oh, because it

looked like a salad, ma.

362

: 00:18:01

Okay.

363

: 00:18:01

Yeah I'm following it.

364

: 00:18:03

Jerremy: A

365

: 00:18:03

mythical salamander.

366

: 00:18:04

Yeah.

367

: 00:18:05

It's really interesting.

368

: 00:18:06

Dave: Yeah.

369

: 00:18:07

Alex: We've unpacked those raw,

eye-opening moments from the

370

: 00:18:10

voting booth—frustrations that

hit close to home and spark real

371

: 00:18:15

questions about trust in the system.

372

: 00:18:17

But what if the real twist happens

long before you cast your ballot?

373

: 00:18:22

Stick around for our next segment, where

Reed breaks down how gerrymandering

374

: 00:18:26

rigs the game and shares straightforward

fixes that could change everything.