Canadian Healthcare vs USA and the 2030 Work Contract
Jerremy and Dave interview Canadian entrepreneur James Klein about universal healthcare. He details the government health card system, wait times for procedures, doctor shortages, and private pay options. Americans face high monthly premiums while Canadians pay through payroll. The talk turns to a new social contract for work by 2030 as automation and AI change fields like banking and law. Klein notes entrepreneurship is much harder than advertised.
Timestamps:
- (00:00) Segment 3: Healthcare, the Future of Work & What's Actually Coming
- (00:15) Universal Healthcare Canada vs USA
- (05:46) Healthcare Policy Origins
- (07:50) Future of Work New Contract
- (15:52) Lightning Round
- (19:00) Closing Thoughts
Connect:
- James Klein – LinkedIn
Transcript
A Canadian entrepreneur who's never tied his health coverage to a
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:job offer sits across from two American
hosts who know people doing exactly that.
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:The conservative origins of
universal healthcare next might
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:be the TWIST nobody saw coming.
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:Jerremy: And I, I heard you say Universal
Healthcare, which is a perfect transition
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:into this question that I had because
I talk to people all the time, man.
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:And it seems like, you know, roughly
maybe Survey says Family Feud
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:style, one in six American workers.
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:Stay in a job that they would definitely
leave and they stay there because they're
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:terrified of losing health insurance.
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:Now you've been self-employed
for 45 years, you're Canadian.
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:Do me a favor politically, if you want.
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:That's fine.
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:compare and contrast what American
versus international health coverage
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:feels like across the whole arc.
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:What you notice, what you see.
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:Then last but not least,
make sure you sprinkle in.
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:What does it cost over there for
you as an entrepreneur, to not
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:have, you know, health coverage
so that you can tell the Americans
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:what it's like up there in Canada.
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:James Klein: Sure.
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:You know, the US is the only
industrialized nation that does
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:not have universal healthcare.
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:And again, maybe it makes me a bleeding
heart liberal, but I think if you get hit
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:by a car and end up in the hospital for
a month, or you get cancer and can't work
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:and end up in the hospital, I don't think
either one of those should bankrupt you.
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:I think everybody's entitled
to certainly basic healthcare.
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:everybody in Canada has a
card from the government.
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:You walk into the hospital or
your doctor's office and you give
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:them the card and you're treated.
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:Now, can people be seen by a doctor
faster in the US than in Canada?
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:Because it's pay for service?
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:Yes.
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:But if you are really sick here,
you're gonna get seen very quickly.
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:Will it take six months to a year to
get a hip replacement here where you can
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:do it in the US in six to eight weeks?
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:More than likely, and that's a trade off.
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:We also have some privatized
healthcare, so for those who can afford,
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:they can get stuff done privately
and get it done just as quickly.
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:I needed an MRI on my back a couple
of months ago, and my wife actually
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:works in the healthcare system.
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:She said, I can take your requisition
to work and get somebody to do me
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:a favor and you'll probably have
your MRI in three to four months.
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:I called the private clinic
that's literally five minutes
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:from my house and said I need an
MRI, and they said, no problem.
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:Would you like to come to
today, tomorrow, the next day?
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:cost me 750 Canadian
dollars to get the MRI.
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:Thankfully I was able
to pay for it to do it.
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:But that, you know,
that was for back pain.
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:If somebody has cancer or something
and they need an MRI, those
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:machines run 24 hours a day.
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:You might get an appointment at 11:00 PM
to go in for your MRI, but you're going
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:to be seen and you're going to be treated.
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:Our system has a shortage of doctors
the same way it does there is in
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:the us you know, especially in the
small rural communities where I read
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:about hospitals being shut down.
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:So people have to drive two to three
hours to get to the closest hospital.
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:don't have that issue, but we
definitely have a shortage of doctors.
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:for example, I live in
the province of Quebec.
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:We're about 9 million people.
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:I think there are over a million
people who don't have a family
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:doc, and that's terrible.
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:And it's, it's a combination of
there not being enough spots in the
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:university, the government also not
having enough money to say, okay, we
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:need another 1500 family docs quickly.
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:Each family doc orders X amount
of tests during the year, blood
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:tests, x-rays, MRIs, et cetera.
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:Here's the overall cost of all
of that, but what what it results
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:in is people who are sick.
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:Instead of having a family doc to
go to, they show up at the emergency
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:room and they sit and wait for 12 or
18 hours to be seen cases that are
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:non-emergent, and they shouldn't be
going anywhere near an emergency room.
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:So there's always a balance and there
is no perfect healthcare system.
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:I pay for my healthcare both as
an employer, well as an employee,
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:so any employee in Canada.
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:Part of their deductions from their
weekly or biweekly paychecks go towards
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:healthcare an employer, there's a certain
percentage of payroll that gets paid
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:into the healthcare system as well.
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:That being said, people in the
US who have great insurance, and
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:if they're not an employee, but
they're buying insurance privately.
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:I have family members in the US who
are paying three, four, $5,000 a month
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:their healthcare, plus have high copays,
high deductibles, et cetera, et cetera.
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:So I'm in the highest tax
jurisdiction in North America.
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:But when you factor in the cost of
healthcare and everything else, there's
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:really not that big a difference
between what somebody in Canada pays
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:and what somebody in the US will pay.
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:Dave: James, correct me if I'm wrong,
but when you know Universal Healthcare.
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:Was being debated and pushed through
in Canada, that it was actually
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:the conservatives that pushed that
because they wanted a free business
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:from, you know, having anything to
do, with healthcare and be like, Hey,
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:business, you, you do you, you do what
you're, you do best and we're gonna
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:take this burden off of you guys.
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:James Klein: Yes, and Universal
Healthcare, I believe, came about either
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:late sixties or early seventies here.
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:I was a kid, but I remember getting
my first government card and
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:everything else, and I, I think
it's a net positive, certainly.
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:Dave: yeah,
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:James Klein: Is it perfect?
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:Absolutely not.
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:Are there people who abuse the system?
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:You know, of course there are people who
abuse the system and what's happened.
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:You know, the same as in the US
not nearly enough access for people
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:who have mental health issues.
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:James Klein: So those people,
instead of having places to go end
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:up in emergency rooms and end up.
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:Tying up the resources
in the, in the hospitals.
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:Same thing with long-term facilities.
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:Some of the hospitals, like they have
30% of their beds tied up by people who
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:should really be in a rehabilitation or
a long-term care facility, but there are
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:no beds available in those facilities.
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:So they're in the hospital costing
the system a thousand dollars a
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:day to essentially lie in a bed
or sit in a chair waiting for a
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:bed to open up somewhere else.
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:That costs much, much less.
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:Dave: Given your experience, you've
seen, I mean, you've seen so many changes
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:over the decades and our thesis for this
whole thing has been like, Hey, is a new
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:social contract when it comes to work,
and work in, America and work in general.
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:With all of these things happening,
whether it's AI or it's recessions or, you
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:know, like the, the direction for things
because that promise of go to school,
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:get a good job, have a family, you know,
be happy if that was ever really true.
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:It's definitely not true today.
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:So given.
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:Your experience, what
would that look like?
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:What's a new work contract
for, you know,:
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:What is, what is, what does that look like
for who are coming into the workforce?
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:Maybe people who are
already in the workforce.
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:What, what should it be?
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:James Klein: Wow.
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:That's a really good question.
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:I think in an ideal world.
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:There's always going to be
some, some unemployment, but
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:that's probably 2% or less.
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:There's nev, all the economists
consider full employment to essentially
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:be somewhere around that 2% mark.
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:There will always be some people who
are unemployable or don't wanna work.
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:that just is what it is.
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:It used to be that somebody with no
education could go get a job at a gas
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:station and start off pumping gas,
and then they showed that person how
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:to change tires and do oil changes.
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:And eventually they could do, they
could change spark plugs and do
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:whatever it happened to be on the car.
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:everything's electronic.
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:You need a certain education.
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:You have to be able to read the scanners.
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:So menial labor.
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:going to change I think because automation
and electronics and everything coming in.
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:So there's gonna be a certain
baseline for most jobs.
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:You know, unless you're talking about
something like somebody bagging groceries
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:at a grocery store, or you know, somebody
operating a forklift or packing boxes
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:in a warehouse or a gardener or the pure
menial tests working on a farm and like.
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:I have friends who live in farm country
and I see how they're always looking
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:for people to go work on their farms.
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:'cause honestly, nobody wants to
be shoveling manure all day long
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:or be bent over in a field picking
lettuce or whatever it happens to be.
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:I think that.
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:Ultimately, despite what's going
on right now with the nationalistic
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:tendencies and trying to bring
all kinds of jobs back to the us.
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:James Klein: There are certain things
that the production of which will never
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:come back to the US just because there's
always going to be a country where it
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:can be done cheaper and more efficiently.
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:Dave: Mm-hmm.
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:James Klein: you know, the Americans
to a great extent, don't wanna
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:really work those very menial jobs.
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:So that's why I think a robust and legal
immigration system is so important,
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:especially with the demographics of.
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:Reduced population growth.
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:People are having way less babies.
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:There are more people dying
off than babies being born.
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:So, you know, to keep everything
moving there, I feel there has to be a
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:stream of legal, immigration, illegal.
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:Immigration's a totally different
story, and we could debate that for
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:hours and what to do with these people,
but there should be a proper system.
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:America was built on
immigrants, so was Canada and.
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:Everybody's too politically lazy
to actually fix the problem.
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:And I know I've gone off on a tangent
what employment looks like in:
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:automation will continue
to grow so people will be.
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:Rather than writing code, people
will be looking at the code that's
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:being written by their AI bots and
all this machine learning stuff.
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:So I think that's gonna be a big change.
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:Entrepreneurialism is
always gonna be there.
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:There's always gonna be somebody
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:Jerremy: yeah.
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:James Klein: idea to launch a new
business and be the next Steve Jobs or
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:Michael Dell or whoever it happens to be.
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:a lot of things will
become very commoditized.
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:They are already, and I
think that'll only get worse.
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:You know, certain industries I think
will continue to lose employment.
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:Like if you walk, when was
the last time you walked into
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:a bank and spoke to a teller?
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:Dave: I mean, I've been saying
the exact same thing, like,
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:why do we have all these banks?
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:It doesn't make any sense.
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:It seems like a real estate play to me.
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:I.
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:James Klein: E.
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:E, exactly.
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:Like if I see a teller four times a year.
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:It's a lot and it u usually because
I'll have to do something that I
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:can't do myself online or from an ATM.
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:employment in banks is gonna change
and the banks are now having their
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:people do all kinds of alternative
services to generate, to generate
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:revenue and justify their existence.
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:So, you know, I think a lot of those
traditional industries will change.
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:my family's been in the travel
business for plus years, and a lot
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:of people book their travel online.
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:Dave: Yeah.
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:James Klein: the need for travel
agents will continue to be diminished.
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:will be a certain class of clients who
will still want to talk to a travel
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:agent 'cause they don't wanna do all the
research and do all the work themselves.
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:I think accounting firms
will drastically change.
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:I think the practice of law will
drastically change because of the ai.
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:where firms would need a lot of junior
lawyers to be doing a ton of research, AI
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:will be able to do for them in an hour.
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:What it would take an associate attorney
a day or a week or longer to do.
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:So the economy will definitely
evolve with the implementation
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:of the newer technology and that.
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:That's really never gonna change.
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:We, we constantly evolve, you know,
from wagons to the train to everything
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:else that's just and everything else.
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:So it's done well and responsibly, I
think it's a net positive for society.
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:If it's done the way some of
the man monopolistic stuff is
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:being done right now, it has the
potential to be a huge negative.
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:so, you know, emerging markets will be
interesting because, know, some of the
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:places where they don't have proper
electrical grids and everything else.
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:the advent of some of the new solar
or wind, you know, you'll find
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:areas in South America and Africa
and the poorer areas in Asia where.
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:Things will modernize, which I think
is a net positive for the world.
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:Certainly.
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:healthcare is gonna evolve tremendously.
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:Doctors are already starting to
use ai, so you know, my kid's
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:two years into a med degree.
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:What medical students will be
doing eight or 10 years from now
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:be totally different just because
of the evolution of the technology.
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:So I, I think we're in for
major paradigm shift for sure.
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:What exactly it looks like, I'm not sure
if I knew, I would have a conversation
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:with Jerremy and figure out which
stocks to buy and just like put 'em
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:away and wait for them to be the next
Apples or Googles or anything else.
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:you know, in terms of.
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:The markets.
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:I think there's a ton of stuff
that's vastly overvalued.
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:And know, I, I remember 1999 we were
writing business plans and getting funded
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:a $5 million valuations with nothing
behind the 50 or 80 page business plan.
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:And then the dot bomb crash happened.
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:So I, I think we are in for a
correction with some of these
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:massive companies with just.
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:valuations that make no sense at all.
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:But until we get some stability in oil
and gold and politically and everything
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:else, they'll probably continue to run up.
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:Jerremy: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
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:James got a lightning round for you.
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:You've been on a bunch of
podcasts and listened to a bunch.
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:You know how lightning round works.
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:All right, my friend James.
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:Chances the, the recession, which as
you defined and as generally defined
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:right, two quarters of slow growth or
low growth chances the recession hits
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:before the end of this year, 2026.
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:James Klein: 95%.
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:Dave: Wow.
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:Jerremy: All right.
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:Finish this sentence.
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:The biggest lie entrepreneurship
sells young people is,
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:James Klein: That it's easy.
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:Jerremy: ah, bro, it's so true.
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:I, that is the exact phrase I would've
said if I was in your seat in this moment.
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:One industry you would tell a
25-year-old to run towards right now,
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:and one industry to run away from.
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:I.
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:James Klein: The run, run away
from would be becoming a software
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:engineer, because they will be
obsolete, an industry to run towards.
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:I think there are massive opportunities
for people in the video creation world
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:Jerremy: Hmm.
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:Dave: Hmm.
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:James Klein: the AI technology,
and the AI is getting really good,
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:but then it needs, it still needs
a good video editor to get it.
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:To the point where it's just
totally credible and believable.
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:Jerremy: Yes, yes, yes.
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:All right, finish this sentence.
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:The thing.
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:American workers, or maybe even, I mean,
Canadian workers, maybe even workers.
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:The thing workers don't understand
about how business owners
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:actually see them is blank.
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:James Klein: Wow.
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:I think there are businesses where
the employees are totally valued.
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:But there are certainly a lot
of industries where employees
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:are just viewed as widgets.
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:That being said, the thing that employees
need to know is that they're necessary
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:for that business to run and grow.
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:Jerremy: Yeah.
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:Necessary.
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:Great word.
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:Great word to put it.
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:Well, James.
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:I would love for you to share with
people how they can get ahold of you
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:without a website, which is fine.
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:I want you to have more business,
and we have so many listeners who
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:probably wanna reach out to you or
at least get some advice or some
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:information from your consulting piece.
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:What's the best way to get
ahold of you, my friend?
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:James Klein: Best way would be via
my LinkedIn, which I'm sure will
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:end up being in the show notes.
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:Once all of this gets, gets
published, I'm generally pretty
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:good at responding to messages.
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:for anybody who's listened to the
podcast and wants to reach out to me,
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:mention your message that you heard
me on the podcast and you wanna talk.
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:Jerremy: Easy enough.
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:Well, James Klein, thank you so
much, man, for pouring into us on
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:this nice early Tuesday morning.
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:I always appreciate your energy, your
enthusiasm, your excitement, your
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:knowledge, your candor, your acumen.
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:Thank you, sir.
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:Our
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:James Klein: Well, it was an
absolute pleasure and thank
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:you so much for having me on.
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:Jerremy: pleasure.
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:Dave: And here we are.
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:What did you, what did you learn from our,
from our good buddy, James Klein here.
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:Jerremy: Man, I learned maybe,
maybe relearned, possibly
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:Dave: Mm-hmm.
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:Jerremy: business is what you make of it.
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:It is who you are.
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:It is how you impact and work with people.
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:And what I heard James say very
clearly over that hour is, my
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:bro doesn't work a nine to five.
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:He works a five to nine.
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:And there are days and a weeks
and months where it's awesome
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:and you're like, look at me.
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:And I'm, I'm an entrepreneur.
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:I have my own business, I have my
own schedule, I got my own money.
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:I make my own decisions.
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:And there are weeks, days, months, and
quarters where you feel like you're being
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:strangled to death and you are breathing
through a straw every single day.
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:'cause it's so freaking hard.
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:And that is.
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:The contract for entrepreneurship, right?
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:The contract for, hey, I'm working
in a company is, ah, you're, you're
338
:not gonna have a lot of freedom.
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:You're going to be tied down, but you're
gonna have a lot of certainty, but you're
340
:gonna have very little uncertainty.
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:And if you are entrepreneur, you're
gonna have lot of uncertainty
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:and very, very little certainty.
343
:And you're gonna have to work a bunch,
and you're gonna have to be creative,
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:and you're gonna have to be insightful,
and you're gonna have to ask questions.
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:You're gonna have to put, put tons
of value into people's lives and
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:businesses to, to make it work.
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:And it, that's just really a reiteration
of what I know to be true about business.
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:What'd you learn, Mr.
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:Dave Conley?
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:Dave: Hey, I don't know if
I have much to add to that.
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:I, one thing I didn't hear was do what
you're passionate about, and I think that
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:that's sort of a lie that we tell about
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:Jerremy: For sure,
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:Dave: is
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:Jerremy: for sure.
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:Dave: you.
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:You get into entrepreneurship because
you have a great idea and you think
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:it'd be awesome, and then, you
know, then you gotta grind it, man.
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:and then.
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:God, the worst entrepreneurs in the
world that I, that I consulted with,
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:and I, and you know, I didn't invest
in, are the ones that were passionate
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:because they couldn't give up their idea.
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:Even when they, they, it would not work.
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:There was no product market fit.
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:you know, like they could
never make a dollar on it.
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:It was just gonna be a passion project.
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:I'm like, ah, know, like you,
you really have to, Be one of
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:those like problem solvers and be
passionate about the problem, not
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:passionate about the, the product.
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:And so like that's, that came up for me.
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:It's like, man, if you're, if you're
going down this road, I love this road.
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:We gotta teach this road,
we gotta experience this.
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:you know, our kids gotta experience this.
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:People need to, take, I mean we,
we had startup weekends where
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:we would take like civilians.
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:And, and do a bootcamp
with them over three days.
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:And they went from idea to interacting
with real live strangers in 24 hours.
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:And then, you know, we
pivoted their businesses.
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:We, we, you know, taught them
how to learn from that stuff.
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:Man, those startup weekends,
those are invaluable.
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:So people who are interested
in entrepreneurship, go find
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:one of those startup weekends.
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:go talk to James about your idea.
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:You know, and, you know,
talk to other entrepreneurs.
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:Not one of 'em is gonna
say, Hey, it's easy.
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:But a ton of them are gonna say, Hey,
it, it, it, it beats working for the man.
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:Jerremy: Yeah.
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:Yes, yes, yes.
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:Well, listeners.
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:You know what would help us keep
us from having to work for the man?
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:Share this episode with your
friends, your loved ones, your
392
:family members on your social.
393
:Say, Hey, I really enjoyed
it, and then hit us with that
394
:five star review It takes.
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:Four seconds and it costs you absolutely
nothing and helps the algorithm keep
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:paying us so that we can continue
to work seven, five hours a week
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:and love what we do and still grind
and still have the passion and all
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:the things, but most importantly, to
serve individuals at a high capacity.
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:'cause when you do that, you will win.
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:And this is us winning here another
episode of Solving America's Problems.
