Pandemic Grads Hit Ghost Jobs and NYC Rent Wall
Jerremy Alexander Newsome and Dave Conley open by noting half of recent college graduates work jobs that don’t match their degree and entry-level professional work is being cut faster than any prior downturn. They interview 27-year-old New York City HR professional Kathryn Conley, who studied international studies, describes graduating with soft skills plus a distrust of the system, and says she fell into HR partly because the job market was tough. She recounts starting her first job remotely during the pandemic, then relearning workplace norms in-office, and describes paying $3,000 rent for a one-bedroom in Brooklyn and needing early financial planning like a 401(k) or Roth IRA. The discussion argues personal finance isn’t meaningfully taught in school and examines hiring realities, including valuing professional experience and claims that some LinkedIn postings function like “ghost” jobs due to resume volume and employer ghosting.
Timestamps:
- (00:00) Introduction – half of grads underemployed
- (00:20) Meet Kathryn Conley – 27-year-old NYC HR pro
- (01:08) College vs. Career Reality – soft skills and system distrust
- (05:20) Entering the Workforce During COVID – remote first job
- (08:42) Financial Trade-Offs & Cost of Living – $3,000 Brooklyn rent
- (11:46) Why Financial Literacy Isn't Taught – 401(k)s and Roth IRAs
- (14:51) What Actually Gets You Hired – experience over degrees
- (16:49) Ghost Jobs & the Broken Application Process – LinkedIn overload
Transcript
Half of recent college graduates are working jobs
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:that do not meet their degree.
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:is cutting entry-level professional
work faster than any prior downturn,
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:and the generation that received
the most career advice is the one
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:holding the fewest guarantees.
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:That's not a motivation
problem, that is a broken
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:Alex: contract.
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:Jerremy: My name is
Jerremy Alexander Newsome.
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:With me is my co-host, Dave DC Conley,
and this is Solving America's Problems.
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:Kathryn Conley is a young professional
based in New York City, who launched
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:her career inside a pandemic, hit
detours the system never warned her
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:about and landed in a new city rewriting
what normal is supposed to look like
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:in work, relationships, and of course
in how you actually define life.
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:she's not an economist.
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:She's not a policy expert.
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:someone living the exact question.
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:This series keeps asking when the deal
expires and nobody writes a replacement.
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:What do you actually do?
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:Kathryn welcome to the show.
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:Kathryn: Thank you guys.
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:So happy to be here.
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:Jerremy: Absolutely.
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:So you are 27.
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:You're a New York HR professional.
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:By most measures, you're doing
what the script said to do.
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:When you look at where you actually
are versus what you expected
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:college was building you toward,
what's the biggest thing different?
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:Kathryn: Yeah.
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:For starters, I, I grew
up in Northern Virginia.
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:So right outside of DC had a very
smooth high school experience
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:for all intents and purposes.
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:grew up in an affluent area.
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:Public school system was well
funded, had that kind of support.
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:I was lacking in the motivation
department in high school, but that
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:kind of changed when I went to college.
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:So my college experience was,
big school in Chicago, big, the
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:largest Catholic university in
America, can you even believe it?
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:That wasn't the reason why I
went, but I ended up falling into
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:international studies as a degree,
so like international relations and.
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:A lot of politics, a lot of
reading and writing, and just
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:general kind of liberal arts.
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:college, that was a really great
experience for teaching me how to think
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:and how to learn and how to write.
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:However, the general tone of my major
was very, a critique of the system.
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:It was a critique of.
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:Of traditional ways to work and live.
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:there were, PA pathways
that you could go down.
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:Alex: So a lot of people become
lawyers, some people become politicians.
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:A lot of decent amount of people went
into like, tech kind of cybersecurity.
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:Challenging coming out of college
because not only was I, I had these
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:skills, soft skills of like reading,
writing, research, critical thinking.
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:Kathryn: So that set me up semi well.
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:I also had this critique on top of it
of like, mis mistrust for the system.
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:what's the job that I'm gonna fall
into that's gonna like, align with my.
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:Like my personal goals aligned with like
what I believe in, aligned with what
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:I've been taught for the last four years.
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:and on top of that, you have kind of
the job market that I was going into
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:Jerremy: Yep.
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:Kathryn: and the job market that
has gotten worse today of, okay,
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:I have all these soft skills,
I'm suspicious of the system.
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:Now what do I do?
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:Like actually, what do I go into?
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:And, I feel like it just, it leaves
you in this really funky spot of, do
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:I go with what I, what aligns with my
personal values, which I guess is the
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:kind of like the age old question.
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:Do I go with, align with what aligns with
my personal values, which, might not pay
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:well, might not even pay at all, honestly.
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:Or do I go into, Any job that will
take me, do I kind of create that
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:balance there, by just maybe working
strictly a nine to five and then
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:doing what, what I value, what, what
means a lot to me outside of work?
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:or do I follow that path of law school
of like, working really hard and putting
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:in all of these hours and money and
schooling into kind of this future that.
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:I'm, I'm semi prepared for,
but also really suspicious of.
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:So, and then on top of that, I feel
like a lot of my professors really
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:didn't, I mean, they, they would talk
a little bit about what you could do
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:post grad, but that was never really
something that was hammered into us.
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:There was no, like, there weren't as many.
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:success stories are like examples of
people to kind of look up to while
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:I was in college, of what all these
options could look like in real life.
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:So yeah, definitely set me up in
a weird spot post grad, but I kind
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:of fell into hr, mostly because
the, the job market was tough.
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:And then I ended up getting into HR in
the legal space, which seemed kind of.
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:Meet some of those interests in, going
to law school and, and pursuing that
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:path, getting some exposure to that.
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:but yeah, here I am.
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:Dave: So, had a very, I would, you had a
unique entry into the workforce when all
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:of us were kind of locked in our homes.
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:So what, I mean, what
lessons did that teach you?
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:Like what was like, sort of
what you thought was gonna
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:happen, what was happening?
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:And do any of those sort of
translate into what you've,
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:what your view of work is today?
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:Kathryn: absolutely.
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:I mean, I, my first day at work,
like my first quote unquote pick girl
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:job as they call it, was getting a.
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:UPS, massive box from UPS with a headset.
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:My laptop, my, I had like a stipend
to buy a monitor and I just put it,
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:put the headset on, and then there
I started my first day at work.
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:It was really odd, kind of like
out of body experience, but also I
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:had nothing to compare it to, so.
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:I remember in between like
during my first couple of weeks,
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:there was so much idle time.
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:I would just kind of sit there in
between meetings, like, what do I do?
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:What am I supposed to do?
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:And if you're in a traditional office
environment that I've come to learn now,
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:like you have people to talk to, you
turn over, you say, Hey, how's it going?
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:Where you like go out and get lunch?
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:You have that.
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:But for me it's just okay.
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:I guess I'll go on a walk now.
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:I don't know, I guess I'll like
grab a coffee or just kind of peruse
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:Instagram and so when we kind of
subtly started going into office.
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:We would kind of try it for a
little while and then obviously
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:it was a lot of back and forth.
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:the first week back I remember I felt
like it was freshman orientation.
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:It felt like my first week at school
of like, alright, so I, I kind of
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:know how everyone typically interacts
with each other or typically in the
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:sense of like remote typically at
that point, which was typical for me.
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:But how do we do this in person?
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:How does this work?
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:And I think there were some,
yeah, there were just like
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:new, new jitters, new kind of.
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:Feeling of like, it, it felt
like I was doing the job for the
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:first time when I came back in.
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:so I've had some time to,
to kind of settle into that.
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:Obviously now that we're back
in person, I'm in person, three
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:days a week, two days remote.
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:it's interesting to see how that kind
of ebb and flow of that new system
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:has changed my relationship with work.
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:I think, and it depends on, on your job.
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:And, and I've been at two firms now,
so seeing the difference between
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:that has been really interesting.
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:But, I used to be, when I went
into the office for the first
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:time, I was very exhausted.
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:Like I'm an introvert and so
I need some time to recharge.
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:So going into the office.
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:Five days a week versus zero
days was like, oh my God, I have
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:like no energy to do anything.
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:And now there's been a shift of
like, when I'm working from home,
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:I have no energy to do anything
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:Jerremy: Yeah, it's good
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:Kathryn: I,
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:Jerremy: it
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:Kathryn: yeah.
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:Jerremy: know, move
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:Kathryn: Yeah.
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:Jerremy: because it, it's like,
it's a personality trait, right?
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:Kathryn: Mm-hmm.
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:Jerremy: that's what's,
that's what's unique.
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:And, and speaking about maybe financial
traits, so like what's one financial, or
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:let's call it maybe lifestyle trade off.
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:That you've had to make
because of expenses.
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:Right.
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:You briefly mentioned housing
costs that maybe your parents'
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:generation never really had to face.
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:Kathryn: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think
I'm, I'm in a pretty generally good.
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:Situation personally.
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:right now, I think, or generally
kind of similar space personally,
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:um, compared to my parents, both my
parents are artists and art teachers.
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:So, um, you know, I'm,
I'm working in, you know.
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:Large industry doing pretty well for
myself, but I'm in New York City, a
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:famously super expensive place to live.
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:Um, so I think, yeah, I think the
housing, the housing cost, the.
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:I mean, the fact that I pay $3,000
in rent for or in rent for a a one
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:bedroom in New York, in Brooklyn
mind you is like absolutely absurd.
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:I, I like shock myself thinking about it.
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:so yeah, I think that the, the
savings component, like you have
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:to be super strategic about it.
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:And I know a lot of my friends
like aren't strategic about it.
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:They don't know.
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:What you should be doing
to prep for your future.
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:And I feel like now more than ever,
having that knowledge is like make
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:or break for you in the future.
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:Because I feel like maybe with my
parents' generation, you could think
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:forward to the future, but you could
also kind of make it by without really,
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:really like investing or really,
really keeping that at your, for like.
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:Thinking about like a 401k, thinking
about a Roth IRA when you're like 22,
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:like that was something that like I
started thinking about when I was 21.
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:Um, thanks to my brother, which is
great, but, and subsequently thanks to
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:you Dave, because you taught my brother.
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:So thanks.
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:But I think that now more than ever, that
kind of cushion, that kind of prep the
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:time on your side is, I think it's been
a really big conversation for people.
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:In my, and I'm curious to know what
your guys' thoughts, but, in my gener,
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:like for my generation, for my peers who
are maybe on the financially literate
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:side, they, we've been talking about
this for like the last eight years.
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:it's been at the forefront
for my, my boyfriend.
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:It's been at the forefront of
his mind since he was like 18.
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:So, but for some other friends who
maybe aren't, they don't have that.
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:Kind of knowledge or network that's
kind of teaching them that, and that
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:can make or break so much of your future
when it comes to like buying a house,
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:having a family, all of that stuff.
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:Jerremy: so maybe a controversial
question, maybe not.
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:I don't know.
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:Kathryn: Mm-hmm.
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:Jerremy: Kathryn how come
that's not taught in school?
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:super smart.
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:You did a bunch of school, like
what's going on over there?
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:Kathryn: It's the age old question.
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:I don't think it's controversial at all.
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:Jerremy: What over here?
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:How come it's not being taught?
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:Kathryn: I know.
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:I mean, it's, so.
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:And, take this for while you will, but
my boyfriend taught public school, like
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:entry level economics in, in high school.
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:And he was in kinda an
interesting district.
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:There was like a vast variety of people
from various socioeconomic backgrounds.
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:and he, it was basically like a filler
course that kids aren't required to take.
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:so I think that's like part one is
that people aren't required to take
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:this course, and then part two is they.
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:Take the course, but they're being taught
like such basic stuff because we don't
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:realize like how little people know
in general about all of these topics.
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:It's like, okay, you get
a hundred dollars, are you
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:gonna spend a hundred dollars?
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:No, no, no, no.
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:Let's see what we can do with that.
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:Like maybe let's spend 80 and then do
you know something else with the 20?
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:Like those, I feel like those classes,
to whatever extent they exist across
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:the, the country, Are just so basic
entry level, and then when you
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:get to college, there's nothing on
personal finances to my knowledge.
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:I mean, maybe in business school,
but like there's, it's, yeah.
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:I don't know.
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:Jerremy: It's
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:Kathryn: Good question.
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:Yeah.
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:Jerremy: Yeah.
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:Dave: Were you taught?
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:so since I'm only like a couple of years
older than Kathryn like I, I was not
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:taught any of that, stuff, back in my day.
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:So like there wasn't personal
finance, there wasn't any of that.
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:It wasn't in, in grade school, high
school, middle school, college.
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:It wasn't anywhere I had to, know,
I'm still feel like I'm learning it.
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:But, I mean, Jerremy, did you get
any of that either or is this just
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:like multi-generations of like, we're
not teaching about entrepreneurship,
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:we're not teaching about finance,
we're not talking about money.
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:We're not talking about like the
one thing that we all, the one
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:tool that we all need to use.
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:Jerremy: Yeah, here.
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:So here's what's crazy, dog.
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:no, of course not for me.
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:Like, that's, that's
my whole ethos, right?
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:Where it's like, what the heck?
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:That's all I wanted was to learn this.
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:But, but think about how wild,
this is one of my favorite quotes.
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:Money's not the most important
thing to focus on, but it's
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:right up there with oxygen.
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:If you even think about breath.
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:We are not, we're not even
taught how to breathe in school.
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:And I know that sounds dumb and
like, what are you talking about?
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:But like breath work.
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:How, how to regulate your emotions
in your nervous system, how to calm
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:down, how to actually breathe and
more optimally, and how to make more
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:money and circulate more money and
create more money and keep more money.
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:Those two things are just not
discussed at all, at any length in
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:any major school in this country.
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:In 2026 is literally mind blowing.
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:It is just earth shattering
and it's so fascinating to me.
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:Kathryn: It's crazy.
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:Jerremy: and it is crazy, Kathryn
And so what's cool is you, where
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:you are at right now, right?
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:A super awesome HR professional.
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:You get to sit on the other side of
the table and, and you're seeing these
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:resumes come in and you're watching,
you're watching hiring decisions get made.
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:What actually moves a candidate forward?
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:when employees tell the public
that they care about skills over
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:degrees, is that actually true?
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:And what happens in the
room behind the closed door?
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:Kathryn: Yeah, it's interesting.
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:I mean.
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:I'd say generally, I was actually having
a conversation with my, my friends
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:about this recently and, my colleagues
actually, so we were talking about.
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:The importance actually of
professional experience, so or
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:so, just don't bring it back.
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:I work in a really highly specialized
industry, so like that you have
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:to get the education that you
need in order to become a lawyer.
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:You have to get.
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:That education.
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:But with that said, I think generally
in the hiring space, there is kind of
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:a push towards professional experience
like graduating undergrad and working
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:in whatever capacity before you get
your master's, before you get your jd.
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:And that is something that I feel like is
becoming increasingly more valuable is,
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:is to have that in the room experience.
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:It's something that they kind of.
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:a couple of my friends who are maybe
a little older than me told me before
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:I entered the workforce, but I'm
seeing that kind of grow over time.
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:Being able to, to write professional
emails, being able to like I.
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:Do meetings, like being able to live
as a human before you get all of this
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:extra education, I think is really
valuable and I'm seeing that kind
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:of translate into a few industries
that I have some insight into.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Jerremy: That's dope.
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:Okay.
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:I like that.
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:so what about this then?
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:So some of the, some data out there shows
that roughly 20% of online job postings
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:are ghost jobs with no intention to hire.
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:Is that real?
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:Kathryn: I don't know personally,
from personal experience in terms
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:of applying, it feels like that.
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:I think if it doesn't, if it like, it
feels like no one's, no one's out there.
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:But I will say, I think there is
like something to be said about
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:LinkedIn jobs and things being
posted there because there are,
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:There are various companies, firms,
institutions, whatever, who will post
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:something on LinkedIn, but they don't
have the capacity to actually receive
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:that many resumes and that much, that
many responses to whoever's submitting.
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:So that leads to an overload,
and eventually they'll just
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:write off like all of the.
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:Resumes that are getting
sent through LinkedIn.
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:Like I haven't experienced this
impersonal experience, but it's
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:something that I've heard anecdotally
of like they just can't take it.
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:They won't look at it.
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:So it essentially is a ghost, you
know, posting in that they're not
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:actually receiving anything that
they've received from the posting.
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:Yeah.
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:Jerremy: Got it.
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:Yeah, that's
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:Dave: imagine why they do that.
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:Kathryn: Yeah.
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:Dave: it just like getting
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:Jerremy: magnet.
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:Like they're, they want,
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:Dave: know.
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:Jerremy: I'm seeing a lot too, man.
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:Like with my 16-year-old right now, Gabe.
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:So I, I helped him with his resume.
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:I mean, it's not a binding resume, right?
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:He's 16, but the, I mean, he's
applying to a bunch of jobs, dude.
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:Like, I'm, I'm helping him do it.
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:I'm seeing him do it.
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:phone calls back, no texts
back, no emails back, nothing.
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:Kathryn: Hmm.
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:Jerremy: And I mean, and like the,
the face we're hiring like the signs,
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:text this number and send us your
resume and like we're doing it,
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:we're not even hearing anything back.
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:So it is kind of wild 'cause I'm
over here like, alright, well
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:do you guys need people or not?
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:So, it's really, really interesting,
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:Kathryn: Yeah, I wonder like they
just can't handle the volume.
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:It's, it's so.
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:It's so baffling to me.
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:It's something that I've experienced
with my job searches in the past of,
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:of like, you submit your, even after
you submit your resume and maybe
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:have like one interview with them and
they say that things are great and
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:then they just ghost you from there.
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:Like the, like this market is nuts.
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:Absolutely nuts.
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:S now.
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:Jerremy: Yep.
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:Really, really wild.
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:Alex: A hiring system that posts
jobs no one fills, screens résumés
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:no one reads, and ghosts the people
it asked to apply—Solving America's
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:Problems asks the uncomfortable part.
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:Next: who BUILT this, and
who's still keeping it running?
