America's Voting Crisis: Fraud Fears, Gerrymandering, and the Path to Real Reform

Dave: 00:00:00

And here we are.

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Jerremy: Yes.

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kickoff to ballot box number three,

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Rethinking Who Votes in America.

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That was fun.

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Everyone.

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Dave: We say that every time.

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That was fun.

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Jerremy: Yeah.

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Everyone loves our wrap-ups.

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The, what did we learn?

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Where did we go?

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What did we study?

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Who did we hear from?

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Dave: Yeah,

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Jerremy: And I felt like we did a

really unique job of spraying this

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up over many weeks, many days,

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Dave: we did.

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Jerremy: many months.

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Hear, hearing from different

people, hearing different thoughts,

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hearing different ideas, concerns.

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I actually ended up meeting with Reed

in person in Vegas like two weeks ago.

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Dave: Nice.

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Jerremy: So we had some some

more good follow-up conversation,

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but yeah, I enjoyed it, man.

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I think it'd be fun for people to

learn or hear about where you started

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when we entered this, like where

you were at on this whole journey.

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Dave: I think like a lot of people I

I started with this general feeling,

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Hey, this isn't working, this doesn't

work, this isn't working for me.

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The, this whole voting thing,

this just seems ridiculous.

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And then you don't know what to believe

with oh, voting fraud and hanging chads

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and like there's been nothing but voting

fraud as the, it seems like the highest

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best use of political capital since 2016.

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It's just been Russians

and stuffed ballot boxes.

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And nobody feels good about that, right?

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It's like you want your vote to

count and yet underneath it all,

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like I knew things weren't right

with things like gerrymandering.

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And that came up over and over again.

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So it felt very, like the

process was broken for me, right?

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It's and there's a, there's

this this creeping ni nihilism,

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I don't know how to say it,

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Of well who watches the watchers, if the

people who are in charge of this, or the

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ones in charge of reforming it, and it's

in their best interest to keep it exactly

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the same because they wanna stay in power,

like it gets dark really quick, right?

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Jerremy: Yeah.

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Dave: So I, I think that's, I started in

that space of, okay, this is a problem.

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Everybody knows it's a problem

and we can't do anything about it.

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And that did evolve for me, I'd say.

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How about you?

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Where did you start in this?

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Jerremy: I started I believe from the, and

I probably have a lot of this still, but

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definitely started from the perspective

of we need more data, more numbers.

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A little bit more strictness to it and

more sure, let's call it protocols.

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Putting very strategic things in place.

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And one of the, one of the aspects that

definitely shifted in a nice way was

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the like national holiday for voting.

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Dave: Yeah.

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Jerremy: That's actually probably

a really great way to make it

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more standardized, to make it more

available, to make it more open so that

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everyone does take off work from it

and they actually have access to it.

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And that aspect, you have the

ability to track more data

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Dave: Yeah.

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Jerremy: again, with AI and technology,

just make it a little bit more seamless.

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I do think that there's still, I

don't think we've solved for that yet.

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With all the different ways

to vote, with like mail-in

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ballots and so on and so forth.

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But I do believe that there's some

something there where it's one or

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two more deep dives into the do

we track, how do we know for sure?

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Did these people vote or not?

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Dave: Yeah.

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Jerremy: especially if you were registered

to vote and you didn't vote, why not?

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If you did register to vote and you

voted awesome, like I don't really.

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Worry about personally having

that data being shared.

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I think that could be something

that'd be very easy to be privatized

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Secure way.

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But yeah, man I did, I enjoyed it.

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I enjoyed the journey.

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It was really fun to just

have that conversation.

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I definitely was convinced that stricter

identification and process integrity

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were central to voter confidence.

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And I still see slash saw civic

participation through a lens

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of individual responsibility

and procedural rigorousness.

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Dave: yeah.

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Yeah.

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Jerremy: So it it enjoyable to know that

I, after, and we'll get to it later,

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but speaking to Rob, there's definitely

people who really care about the process,

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Dave: Yeah.

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Jerremy: about the numbers, who do

care about the data, who do truly

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are putting in the mathematical

sequences to figure this stuff out.

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get really dialed in.

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Dave: That's, I didn't participate

in the discussion was wrong.

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I was in the background for those

of you, I think we addressed it

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a little bit at the top of this.

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These are launching right

now as we're recording this.

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I was there, but I, as you can hear

from my voice I'm still recovering a

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bit from a wee bit of a virus that,

that that grabbed me and held me down.

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But I was listening to it and I

was re-listening to Rob and I.

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I love that we have advocates that

are so passionate about that he's

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devoted his entire life to this.

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And that's the piece that

gives me hope, right?

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It tamps down that, that nihilism

of oh, we can't do anything when

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we like, oh, but we have people

and he's made big changes with the

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proportionate voting, the rank choice,

voting, those things have happened.

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And the one that, that is, I think

the easiest one that we can do that

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would actually help quite a bit

would be that national holiday.

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That's gonna be a hard one.

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Not for people, for anybody in

power to say that's a bad idea.

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Like that's an easy one.

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And it's not one of those direct

fixes, but it's on the side of it.

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It'll be like, okay, if we're getting

more people to, to participate.

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We're gonna have more people

who are going to want reform.

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I think approaching voting reform head

on is a, is it is just, it's always

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going to hit up against the people

who are gonna wanna keep it the same.

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So we have to like, we have to hit

at it at the side and the is gonna

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be like national holiday, that means

we're gonna get more people involved.

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That means with more voices, more

people, more power around that, then

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that will lead to bigger, better things.

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And I think that's my favorite

one that came out of all of this,

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which was, yeah, national holiday.

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That seems like an easy win.

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Jerremy: That's exactly from all

the things we discussed, that does

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seem pretty pretty reasonable.

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Dave: Yeah.

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Jerremy: You can't Hey,

you wanna change voting?

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Why do you wanna change voting?

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'cause you like to vote.

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It makes a lot of sense.

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It's a national, let's make it a holiday

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Dave: Totally.

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Jerremy: because it's once every what,

two years, let's probably say that would.

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Dave: Yeah.

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In November, it'd be like we can bump

it up near Thanksgiving maybe, or maybe

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it's a, may maybe it'd be the what,

the second Tuesday in November, right?

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Jerremy: Yeah,

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Dave: Or first Tuesday in November.

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I don't know which one it is.

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Jerremy: Tuesday of November.

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Dave: Tuesday in November, right?

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Yeah, that sounds good to me.

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Jerremy: Hey, I like it, man.

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Let's just make that, let's

just push that law through.

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Dave: I think that's an easy one.

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I think we can actually

make that one happen, right?

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That feels very doable, gets

more people involved, people

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who wanna have the day off.

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They can just have the day off.

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We can make parties out of it.

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We can, have voting drives.

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There's so many things.

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I, I hear you on the ID thing, and I,

we, we talked to Reed, we talked to

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oh, we talked to, oh, Tyler, right?

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We've talked about ID a few times

and, like I live here in, in Florida

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where, strict id you have to show it.

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I do hear, and I heard it a bit

from from our last guest of yeah.

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Like there are still a bunch of

people who don't have IDs and

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that's a significant barrier.

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I still keep coming back to

where we landed on it, which

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is let's fix that problem.

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Everybody should have an id.

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Let's make it inexpensive, easy.

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Let's have the ID buses in all of the

neighborhoods that need to have them.

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It's like having an ID is pretty

basic, pretty straightforward, and I

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think we can overcome those objections

by fixing the ID part of this.

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I think there's always gonna be edge

cases of people who may not, if they're

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just new to the country and they

don't have some source documentation,

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but you can get there, right?

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You can get there with

Hey, this is who I am.

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I test who I am, this is how I

get a gas bill, this address,

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this is, on and on, right?

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My buddy Jerremy says, this is who I am.

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So

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Jerremy: Yeah.

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Dave: I think let's fix the ID

thing, but let's fix it separately.

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And then you can definitely

use it for things like voting.

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And I think it's okay to tie

those things together, I think.

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I think you're all for that, right?

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Jerremy: I'm all for that.

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Yep.

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I'm, that's, I vote yes.

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Hearing Yeah.

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Tyler talk about it and Reed and Rob and

really all from different perspectives.

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I was intrigued to learn how many people

had a relatively strong opinion on it.

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Outside of our three guests,

there were a lot of people that

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were like, no, don't do that.

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'cause you're gonna disenfranchise

or you're gonna, you're gonna

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create too much separation.

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Or there's a lot of people that

don't have that, and that's unfair.

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And I do exactly agree with what

you said, and I think really what

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we said is, man, we can fix that.

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That's

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Dave: Yeah,

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Jerremy: right?

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Dave: easy,

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Jerremy: get everyone an ID

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Dave: right?

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Jerremy: and then just

make it a requirement

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Dave: It's gonna be free,

you can't afford it.

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Here's your id.

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Great.

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It doesn't even have to be a

driver's license or anything.

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It'd just be like, like walking around

Id, this is you, this is who you are.

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You can use it for all sort of things.

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You can use it to, to check out books

at your library, whatever, right?

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Jerremy: All kinds of things.

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Having an idea, like if

you want to go to the gym,

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Dave: That was the story.

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You couldn't go work out

because you didn't have your.

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Jerremy: go work out at Lifetime

Fitness in Laguna Beach, California

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Dave: Yeah.

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Jerremy: buddies,

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Dave: Nope.

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Jerremy: don't have an id.

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You can't get jacked without an id.

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So you need some.

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So that is a, am a.

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Legal system of the us I think that's

just a valid, useful thing to have.

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Dave: Yeah

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Jerremy: I do agree with, I think

Reid was really one who brought up.

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It was like I really don't think, illegal

immigrants are flooding to the booths

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and making a bunch of votes anyway.

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And I agree with that.

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I don't think that's

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Dave: We talked about that too, and

I think I'm a little bit more liberal

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on this, meaning that regardless

of your legal status whether you're

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a citizen or not, let's just leave

it at that US citizen versus not.

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You live here, right?

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You have a vested interest

by living in your community.

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I am totally fine.

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With regardless of immigration status,

if you are a student from someplace

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else, if you are, a permanent resident,

if you're like, whatever it is, you are

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here in the United States and you are

here for the next one year, five year

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indefinitely, whatever it is, right?

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You have a ve vested

interest in your community.

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So yeah, you should be able to

vote in your local elections.

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You should be able to vote in

your county-wide stuff, and who's

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gonna be collecting your garbage

and picking up stray dogs and your

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local ordinances on, on, on noise.

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And like all of that stuff is a

part of you and your community.

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And then maybe states can

decide whether or not you can

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do state, level stuff or not.

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I tend to think yeah, that, regardless

of your status, you should be able to

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do state stuff when it gets to be like

federal and your federal representation.

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Yeah, I think that really is for citizens.

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I don't know why I feel that

way, but it just, it that

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feels more you're an American.

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So you're voting on America, like

I'm of the mindset that like,

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if you live in a community, you

should be able to vote in community

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regardless of your quote unquote,

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Jerremy: yeah, I

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Dave: nation of origin,

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Jerremy: no, I actually

love that perspective.

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I love that perspective.

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I think it would be more of a, again,

from the ID perspective of if people

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have, this is who I am, are you?

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If you're a student, you're

like, oh, I walk into the thing.

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Here's my student visa.

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Oh, you're here legally.

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Dave: Yeah.

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Jerremy: Anyone who's here illegally,

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Dave: Yeah.

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Jerremy: yeah, absolutely.

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Vote in anything local.

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'cause you live here.

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Dave: You live here,

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Jerremy: You're buying food, you're buying

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Dave: right?

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Jerremy: so you're

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Dave: Yeah,

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Jerremy: all that good stuff.

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If you're here illegally, I don't

think you should be voting in anything.

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Dave: really?

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I don't know.

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I don't care about the

legal status all that much.

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'cause going back to

our immigration debate,

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Jerremy: Yep.

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Dave: Let's fix the, let's fix

the, everybody's here to work, so

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let's fix it on the working side.

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And I, so I'm like, look, if

it, regardless, I really am.

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It's regardless of status, if

you live in an area, you should

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be able to vote on something.

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I dunno.

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Jerremy: what I like when Reid was

essentially saying there hasn't really

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ever been a specific, influx or a

diatribe of very particular people.

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They're like, let's

totally swing something.

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'cause we're all, we're illegal and

we're all gonna vote this one way and

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we're gonna bring in a cartel member.

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he's gonna become, he's

gonna become mayor,

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Dave: That would be interesting.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I can imagine some

scenarios where I might backtrack.

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Jerremy: But soft scenarios.

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Dave: Right.

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Jerremy: 'cause, because, yeah, I

think it's just again, back to the

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ID part, that just seems so easy

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Dave: So straightforward.

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Jerremy: Yeah.

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Everyone could just get lucky.

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I'm a human and I really like living here.

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It's a great country.

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Here's an id, I am that person.

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Yeah, it'd be really fun.

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Make it makes Starbucks

orders a lot easier.

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You can just show them your card.

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Hey, here's my, here's who I am,

here's how my name is spelled.

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And then the Starbucks

barista writes it correctly.

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Dave: I can already hear the civil

libertarians in our audience.

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Just dying on the inside

going, no, I don't watch an id.

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No.

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Jerremy: Well, I.

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But they already, the civil

libertarians already have an id, right?

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Dave: But it's in your name, right?

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Jerremy: Yeah.

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It's good times.

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Good times.

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Dave: So yeah we talked to Reid.

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That was great.

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That was God that feels so long ago.

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Then we talked to Tyler.

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Jerremy: Yep.

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Both are fun.

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Yeah.

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Reid's a civic observer.

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Had he just, he loved it.

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He's in it.

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He loves talking politics.

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We sat down for breakfast,

three minutes in boom.

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Politics.

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It was like politics and stocks and money.

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That was the breakfast conversation.

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And it was nice.

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: 00:14:01

It was interesting that he illustrated how

distrust elections is cultivated, right?

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: 00:14:07

It's not really accidental, which makes.

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: 00:14:10

Perfect sense.

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: 00:14:11

And he definitely positioned himself

in a way that gerrymandering the

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: 00:14:14

foundational democratic flaw.

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: 00:14:17

And

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: 00:14:17

Dave: It is it the deep wound?

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: 00:14:20

When it gets down to it, we didn't

find, I, maybe next time I'm gonna find

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: 00:14:24

somebody who's yeah, gerrymandering.

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: 00:14:27

Go gerrymandering.

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: 00:14:29

Jerremy: It's the best.

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: 00:14:30

I love salamanders.

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: 00:14:33

Yeah.

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: 00:14:33

Dave: It's yeah, I don't think we're,

again, that's just like people wanting

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: 00:14:37

to stay in power for the sake of power.

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: 00:14:39

And that's all, partisan politics.

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: 00:14:41

And it has nothing to

do with representation.

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: 00:14:44

It has nothing to do that's when

it, it feels the most to me,

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: 00:14:48

that, our representatives care

the least about us when it affects

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: 00:14:56

their ability to keep their job.

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: 00:15:00

Jerremy: On gerrymandering.

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: 00:15:01

You said ah let's find someone

that made this awesome.

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: 00:15:04

Dave: Oh

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: 00:15:04

Who watches the watchers?

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: 00:15:05

Like I, is, we're seeing it now

with, states wanting to redistrict

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: 00:15:11

right now in time for, for midterms

coming up this time next year.

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: 00:15:18

So California's gonna add,

Florida's gonna add, Texas is

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: 00:15:21

gonna add, new York's gonna add.

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: 00:15:22

Everybody's gonna add like a

bunch of representatives, try

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: 00:15:24

and balance each other out and

try to get like the upper hand.

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: 00:15:26

None of it actually serves

any of the voters at all.

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: 00:15:29

This is just, as politicians

being politicians,

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: 00:15:33

Jerremy: Yep.

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: 00:15:33

Dave: I fixing gerrymandering isn't

going to be a thing that we can do.

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: 00:15:38

Not until we, we take it out

of the hands of politicians,

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: 00:15:42

Jerremy: Yeah.

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: 00:15:42

Dave: Like that's, this

is not gonna be it.

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: 00:15:45

Jerremy: Un unless unless we have

an AI redraw borders or something.

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: 00:15:49

Dave: I love it.

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: 00:15:50

But then

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: 00:15:50

Jerremy: But again, you gotta

take it outta the hands.

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: 00:15:52

Yeah.

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: 00:15:52

Dave: be like, okay.

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: 00:15:53

Yeah

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: 00:15:53

Jerremy: hey Jerry, you can't draw

your district lines in North Carolina.

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: 00:15:57

Dave: And you brought this up, I think

more than once, you brought it up with,

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: 00:16:01

I think in every single one of ours,

which is look we already have counties.

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: 00:16:06

Like, why what's the deal here?

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: 00:16:08

Like why do we have anything else?

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: 00:16:10

But, and man, that makes

so much more sense to me.

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: 00:16:15

And like for Miami-Dade for the

county, I, because of how many million

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: 00:16:20

people live here, I would just get,

five representatives that would

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: 00:16:23

Jerremy: Yep.

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: 00:16:25

Dave: Miami-Dade, and it's not,

like this particular district, it's

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: 00:16:30

this county like, and all five of

'em, and in a more sparse area, they

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: 00:16:36

might have two or three counties.

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: 00:16:37

And that, I don't know that seems

so straightforward, so simple.

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: 00:16:42

It's like we don't need gerrymandering.

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: 00:16:44

We already have

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: 00:16:46

Jerremy: Correct.

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: 00:16:46

Dave: boundaries.

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: 00:16:48

They're already

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: 00:16:48

Jerremy: They're already there.

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: 00:16:48

They're already drawn.

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: 00:16:50

Just stop with the politic games.

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: 00:16:52

Yeah.

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: 00:16:53

So that that one's, that's the

one that I'm, I love that we

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: 00:16:55

both beautifully agree on that.

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: 00:16:58

That also sounds really easy.

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: 00:17:00

And you know what?

401

: 00:17:01

It's pretty straightforward, right?

402

: 00:17:03

All that stuff is already done.

403

: 00:17:04

It's already there.

404

: 00:17:05

It's already outlined for us.

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: 00:17:06

There's not a lot of whole, not

a lot of work that we need to do.

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: 00:17:08

Dave: Yeah.

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: 00:17:09

Jerremy: So that was nice.

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: 00:17:10

Alex: Dave digs into gerrymandering's

deep wounds on fair representation,

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: 00:17:14

while Jerremy pushes for using

existing county lines to cut the games.

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: 00:17:19

Yet if politicians redraw boundaries

to cling to power, what chance do

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: 00:17:23

voters have to reclaim the map?